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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP)

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Scott in wa.

06-03-2004 07:41:41




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I have been working on my left final drive on my 440icd, when I took it apart there were 7 fibers and 7 steels.
The clutches were bonded together badly.
The seal to the pinion shaft was bad also.
There is a cap on the pinion shaft that maintains pressure to the pinion bearings and it had a hole lot of shims between it and the housing, about .150 of them. seems odd?????
Finally got the inside of the housing cleaned up and I got new fibers and steels.
8 fibers and 8 steels.
The drum that the fibers go into is air cooled, it has large cut outs in the back to help cool things off. It looks like its one big drum not a two piece like the manual pictures . The splined boss that the fibers slip on to measures 2.00 in thickness. I checked the thickness of all the steels and fibers and they also add up to 2.00.
The depth of the drum is about 1.900 deep so the last fiber will not be in the drum, but it still is on the splined inner shaft, its flush to the edge.
I bolted the pressure plate onto the face of the drum, in the three .250 deep recesses. but when I do, the three fingers compress tight with no free play for the throughout bearing.
I'm wondering if this drum is the wrong one? Should these recesses be .250 deep?????
Something's wrong and I'm having trouble putting this thing back together correctly.
Who ever had this thing apart last, I suspect put it together wrong. Or used wrong parts.
It almost looks like if I put a .200 shim between the drum and the pressure plate, this would make the pressure plate .050 below top of drum, instead of the .250 they are now.
what do you think???
Help...

Can some one help me??
Thanks
Scott

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Karen

06-03-2004 10:15:28




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 Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to Scott in wa., 06-03-2004 07:41:41  
First of all you should always end up with a fiber against pressure plate, before serial number 455632 there is 7 fiber 6 steel after #455633 it is 8 fiber 8 steel, then you must set pressure plate fingers with a JD 7 gauge. If you need parts or the gauge I know where to buy them Just email me. zthe gauge is $20, free if you order complete clutch set ups. Also we have never had to do any machining to make these work clean assemble and set with gauge. If inner plate was machined we machined out same amount.

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scott in wa.

06-03-2004 11:41:09




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 Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to Karen, 06-03-2004 10:15:28  
serial number, it says model 440 serial 459265.



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scott in wa.

06-03-2004 11:21:46




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 Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to Karen, 06-03-2004 10:15:28  
Yep a fiber is the last one to go on, against pressure plate
Is there two different pressure plates for early and late model, or does one fit all?
thanks
scott



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83Jim

06-03-2004 09:00:21




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 Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to Scott in wa., 06-03-2004 07:41:41  
I also have a John Deere 440 ICD that needs steering clutch repair. It has been over 15 years since we last worked on them so my recollection is a little rusty.

I think that you should have an odd # of metal discs (7 sounds right) and an even # of fiber discs (8 should work). It seems some owners (yours truly included) have been known to add an extra metal disc when the clutches start slipping from wear. This increases the pressure on the clutch pack to avoid replacing all discs.

Two things I recall as important: 1) There is a snap ring on the splined hub that fits inside the clutch pack. This is a "locator" which keeps clutch pack oriented in drum. Install your first fiber disc on the out (final drive) side of this ring. The other discs are installed on the in (transmission) side of this ring. (One metal disc actually fits over the locator ring but the inside diameter of this disc is large enough that the locator ring does not interfere with it.

2) You should alternate the fiber and metal discs and end up with a metal disc against the pressure plate.

It seems our machine had two piece drum on one side and one piece drum on the other and there may have been a difference in the number of clutches which each drum would accomodate but I am not sure.

I hope this helps and let us know of your progress.

Best wishes.

Hope this helps.

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JD dozer mike

06-03-2004 20:05:44




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 Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to 83Jim, 06-03-2004 09:00:21  
DO NOT put metal against pressure plate! and i have rarely heard of putting an extra metal in working , usually it will slip.
If you need any diagrams let me know , i can email them. The newer model 440 ser num 455633 and up takes a one piec drum these use 8 metal-8 fiber. earlier were 2 piec.7 fiber-6 metal sometimes ppl put different drums in from earlier or later machines so ser num is not always the answer.
the easiest way to tell is the 2 piec has the pressure plate bolts all the way through the back of the drum with a nut on it.. you can usually see a small seam around the back of the drum . they usually wont seperate easily , usually need to get hit with a mallate.

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scott in wa.

06-04-2004 10:31:58




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 Re: Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to JD dozer mike, 06-03-2004 20:05:44  
Hello mike,
Thanks I will take those diagrams asap.
Send them to Ttalkers@aol.com, also my work e-mail address, I will try and e-mail you that address.
Iam at work.
My book only shows the two piece drum, mine is one piece, But it didn't have the correct number of plates and fibers in it when I took it apart.
(No it wasn't working at all)
the other side seems to work ok.
my serial number is 459265
I was wondering if there was also two different pressure plates as well? and what were the differances.
whats your e-mail address? I can't seem to get yours up.

Thanks
Scott in wa.

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scott in wa.

06-03-2004 09:36:59




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 Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to 83Jim, 06-03-2004 09:00:21  
yes, there is a round snap ring that holds the shaft out enough to get all the clutches and steeles on.
my snap ring was not there, long since gone.
I had to machine the inner surface just above the pilot bearing to get it close, (I have to do it again I missed it by .050)
the shaft does slip a little in the pilot bearing in and out. Its tight but not that tight.
There is no snap ring that goes onto the large splined shaft that all the fifers and steels go onto.
Is it ok that the last fiber is not in the drum? It is still on the inner splined shaft. its flush with it.
However like it is the pressure plate bolt mounting surface does not contact the face of the cut outs in the drum, it looks like its out to far by .200 or so.

any body got and thoughts
thanks
scott

thanks
scott

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Lavoy

06-03-2004 12:08:41




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 Re: Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to scott in wa., 06-03-2004 09:36:59  
Scott,
Did you adjust the fingers on the pressure plate and set them to the correct height with the gauge I sent you?
Lavoy



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scott in wa.

06-03-2004 12:31:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HELP) in reply to Lavoy, 06-03-2004 12:08:41  
Not yet. this was just a fit up to see if the build up and machine work, would be good enough.
I have to add another .050 or so and try it again.

The tool locates on the face of the pressure plate
Then adjust fingers to touch at the stearing flat right.
thanks
scott



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Lavoy

06-03-2004 15:53:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 440icd final, clutch assy.(HEL in reply to scott in wa., 06-03-2004 12:31:56  
Yes, but make sure that the tool is sitting on the brake drum, not on the pressure plate itself.
Lavoy



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