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Case 450B - more questions

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David in SC

06-18-2004 10:06:07

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On my recently acquired 450B, one of the track links was broke and welded back together 7/8" longer than the rest of the links. I set out to fix it right. Or try. Could not break loose the master pin with a 12lb sledge, so I went ahead and cut the welded link apart to remove track. Then, borrowed a 20 ton press to press pin out. Still will not budge. Applied heat. Still no go. Finally, I got frustrated and put the track back under the machine and I will weld on machine. I would have felt much better with my weld had it been welded off the machine, but I can not get master pin to move. It is not welded either. What kind of force is usually required to push these pins out? Also tried again to remove one bottom roller and can not break loose the first bolt. I guess I'll try to return roller and get money back. This has been quite an adventure. Machine does run, but burns oil at the rate of 2 qts per hour. Throttle linkage is bent sharply; I suspect it may have been done intentionally as a rev limiter to keep machine from flying apart as motor is very loose. I would like to overhaul, but I'm reluctant to put $2k+ in a machine that needs $5k in U/C parts. It will work the way it is. The risk is always there, though, that serious engine damage may occur. What would you guys do? This machine is for farm use only.

Thanks as always.
David in SC

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Thanks for advice

06-22-2004 09:47:12

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Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to David in SC, 06-18-2004 10:06:07

Thanks Folks for the advice. I have done my fitting and am ready to weld the track back together. As soon as we get an evening with no rain I will proceed. As for the rollers, I broke 2 bolts off last night. They are on 2 different rollers so I will probably not try to fix right now. If I feel froggy, I might drill and tap the broken bolt for a 1/2" bolt. I did get 2 outside bolts out of 1 roller so I am going to concentrate on that 1 roller and try to get the other 2 bolts out of it. I have new flanges made for 4 bottom rollers. I was hoping to get all 5 off on this side, replace one, and weld one new flange on each of the other 4. I was going to slowly stick weld so no significant heat is generated. Maybe 1" per night. Is this possible? The way it looks now though, I am going to replace one roller and let the other 4 go until another day.
Also planning to replace loader arm bushings. Can anyone confirm that it is a 2.0"x2.5". Mine are so beat up you cannot tell what the dimensions are. I do not know how to get out other than trying to cut into pieces and punch out because you cannot tell where the bushing stops and the arm begins. Marlowe, what is a hot wrench? I assume you are referring to a torch? I do not yet have one, and really cannot afford one right now. My source of heat is a carbon-arc setup that runs off my Linclon buzzbox. Works quite well.

Thanks as always for the advice you all give. You all have saved me alot of work.

David in SC

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83Jim

06-22-2004 13:00:07

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Re: Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to Thanks for advice, 06-22-2004 09:47:12

Thanks for the update. Sorry about the broken bolts in the roller frame.

I have been told that when welding on roller flanges it is best to submerge the roller in water with just the part you are welding on above the surface.

Since I just occasionally work on cats and have never welded on rollers I have no direct experience on how this works.

I thought I would pass this info on for what it is worth.

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Dozerboss

06-20-2004 15:53:07

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Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to David in SC, 06-18-2004 10:06:07

RE: Breaking your track, this may work:
A JD 450 may be totally differant, but it takes 60 ton to press out the master pin with the JD tool. We tried making the bar stock took they recommend if you don't have the press tool. Tryed to hammer it out with a sledge and got no where. How we did it was with a 20 ton porta power and heat. A reg jack doesn't usually work sideways. We found a bolt head on the rear and lined up the master pin in a straight line with the bolt (if you have a hitch you can use that). Set up your porta power with enough pressure to hold it in place on the master link. With the shoe removed heat the link until it is pink or near cherry red on the outside, then alternate heat towards the inside as you apply more pressure with the porta power jack. We found the metal just needed to be barely red for the pin to start moving. Once it moved, we used a smaller piece of the bar stock on the end of the jack to press the pin through. As I said, a Case may be different, but this method worked and I mentioned it because you are in SC and can get the porta power at Harbor Freight for $99 on sale. I know they are in Columbia and Charleston, possibly Greenville. You can look them up on the web. Foreign tools, but it was the right tool for the job as we might need something like this every 2 years or so, mostly farm and odds and ends work. Hope this helps you break your track or gives others with smaller dozers an idea.

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83Jim

06-18-2004 14:43:15

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Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to David in SC, 06-18-2004 10:06:07

I agree with Dale(MO).

Big question is- would you be happy with this machine if it had a good engine and undercarriage?

If the answere is "yes" and if the transmission, hydraulics and drive train seem ok then a rebuild of the engine should be a good investment. Especially if you can do it yourself.

I helped rebuild a Case 207 diesel for a 450B in 1896. The engine was like you described and the operator did not keep it topped off with oil so the crank locked up. I recall that parts were not very expensive even with the crank problem. So hopefully you can get by with less parts.

Next time you tackle the undercarriage remember this: a good 1/2" air impact wrench that develops about 600 ft/lb torque (Ingersall-Rand Model 261's are nice)is amazing for removing nuts and bolts. Especially, if you heat the boss area in the frame rails where the roller bolts are.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

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83Jim

06-22-2004 12:52:55

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Re: Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to 83Jim, 06-18-2004 14:43:15

Thanks for the update on your progress. Sorry about the broken bolts in the rollers.

When welding roller flanges, I have always been told to submerge the rollers in water with only the part you want to weld on above the surface. This uses water to dissipate heat and save the seals.

Since I just work on them and have never welded on rollers, I have no experience on this process but thought I would pass this along for what its worth.

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David in SC

06-23-2004 19:07:02

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Re: Re: Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to 83Jim, 06-22-2004 12:52:55

Thanks 83Jim for the suggestion. I welded a new flange on one roller tonight, submerging the assembly right to within 1/4" of where I was welding. Fairly easy to do when welding on the outside because you can submerge almost the entire assembly. Now for the inside. I guess just short, slow passes with lots of cool down time in between as I can not submerge much. So far it looks good. But, I'll not know until I put it to use whether or not I have cooked anything.

Thanks,
David

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marlowe

06-18-2004 12:29:33

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Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to David in SC, 06-18-2004 10:06:07

as to press size 100 ton is what it takes. why not blow pin out with hot wrench and just get a new pin. as to roller bolt us a 3/4 or 1 in. drive with 4ft. pipe they will come head size is 7/8 make sure you have a GOOD socket

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Dale(MO)

06-18-2004 11:32:58

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Re: Case 450B - more questions in reply to David in SC, 06-18-2004 10:06:07

David, I own an HD3 Allis Chalmers that was in about the same boat. I was lucky, it had a pretty good undercarriage - I had to put roller seals in it, and re-pin and re-bush a couple of them - but all the iron was in good shape. The motor, on the other hand, has been a different story. Like yours, it burned about 2 quarts of oil every hour, and it had surges of power - sometimes it had good power, other times it fell on its face. I ran it some (graded my yard, cleared some brush, etc.), but the oil cost and the aggravation was large, so I decided to rebuild it this past winter. I can't say I did it any harm running it, but I didn't do it any good, either. I have rebuilt or replaced EVERY moving part in the motor except the cam shaft, and have put about $2000.00 in it, but it runs really well. I think it was money well spent. I'll find out shortly, after I get done painting it and putting it back together. If the undercarriage is not completely worn out - the tracks don't fall off, and the rollers don't wobble around - I would put my money into the motor for now. The undercarriage can be taken care of later. With the motor in the shape it's in, you could easily scramble it, and then you will be looking for a complete one. Good luck!

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