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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case 450 Sinking Bucket

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John Van Valken

06-28-2004 19:27:17




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I've got an old (1968) 450 track loader with a Drott 4 in 1 bucket. The hydraulics appear to be strong but when the bucket is lifted it tends to slowly sink. Likewise when the bucket is rolled back it will tend to roll out on its own. It does this fairly quickly.

The sinking/rollout problems are worse if there is a load in the bucket.

The cylinders appear to have been worked on at some time since some of the cylinder caps show signs of having been heated up at one time.

The cylinders themselves appear tight with little or no dripping.

My question is, how likely is it that the spool valves have worn "O" rings? Is it more likely that the cylinders themselves are leaking?

I don't really like the idea of rebuilding the cylinders but I should be able to do it. The spool valves look like they would be pretty easy to work on.

Thanks!
John

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David in SC

06-29-2004 03:23:30




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 Re: Case 450 Sinking Bucket in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 06-28-2004 19:27:17  
John,
I had the same problem with my 450B that I just bought. I had already taken the hydraulic control valve to the Case dealer and had it rebuilt with new O-rings. Worked great, no leaks. I had already had him rebuild one of my lift cylinders and the other one had no external leaks, but my bucket still dropped fairly quickly. I took the other lift cylinder in for a rebuild and it fixed my problem. It must have had alot of internal leakage. It still drops, but it is so slow that it is barely noticeable if you are staring at it. I attribute that to plain old wear and tear in the spools and cylinder bores. Not near enough for me to worry about in the shape mine is in. I am fairly lucky. I have a 50+ year dealer locally that has very reasonable labor ratees. He rebuilds cylinders for $30-40, all included. He rebuilt my control valve assembly for $35. Control valve was a booger to get off because I had to take 4 hoses off with it. Lift cylinders are simple, 10 minute removal and install. Have compressed air and a helper to re-install and it can be done in under 5 minutes. Might want to rebuild cylinders in pairs as one stronger than the other may cause the weaker one to get worse. I have read that, but I do not know. Just thought I would pass it on.

Good luck, I hope you get your leakage fixed.

David in SC

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Brian in SC

06-29-2004 04:24:43




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 Re: Re: Case 450 Sinking Bucket in reply to David in SC, 06-29-2004 03:23:30  
David,

I am in upstate SC and would like to the name of the Case dealer you use. Sounds like a good deal for rebuilding cyldiners. I have a couple that need rebuilding.



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David in SC

06-29-2004 09:59:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Sinking Bucket in reply to Brian in SC, 06-29-2004 04:24:43  
I would rather not give the name of the dealer over the net without his permission, but he is the Case Industrial dealer in Westminster. There are no frills at this dealer. No fancy floor coverings, an old pot belly stove to warm in the winter, etc. But they are great to deal with and very rapid response on everything I have taken in. Very knowledgeable service people.

Hope that helps.

David in Seneca SC

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Brian in SC

06-30-2004 04:51:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Sinking Bucket in reply to David in SC, 06-29-2004 09:59:15  
David, Thanks, I should be able to locate him with that info. Since you are a Case man, I know a guy who has a Case 855 loader for sale. The reason I am interested in seeing him sale the loader is he has a trailer that I could use but will not sale the trailer without saleing the loader. E-mail me if you know any one that may be interested, and I will let you know more. The loader is located in Fountain Inn SC.

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Dale(MO)

06-28-2004 20:50:37




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 Re: Case 450 Sinking Bucket in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 06-28-2004 19:27:17  
John, I have the same problem on my HD3 Allis. I rebuilt the cylinders (new pistons, rods, and packing kits), but the bucket cylinders still bleed off. I am certain mine is in the spool valve - nothing between the two to cause it. I have been into a couple of spool valves, and if the bore is rough, or scarred any, you might as well turn it in for core when you order your new one. The spool rod and bore are precision ground as mating parts. When any pitting, scarring, or out-of-round occurs, I have been told the only way to really fix them is to bore them out oversize, sleeve them, and make a new rod. The rod is induction hardened, so it usually will wear the cast iron valve body before it wears. But as soon as any wear occurs, the oil will cavitate and scar the spool rod. I have seen some that had bent rods, too, which can't normally be saved. I am usually one to fix or repair what's there before I consider replacing with new, but this is one part I would just automatically replace with new. I don't know if your spool valve is readily available (it seems like they change that stuff every couple years), but as long as it is the same style of spool (open center, closed center,etc.), and the lines hook up properly, you can retro-fit it and it should work fine. Good luck!

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John Van Valkenburgh

06-28-2004 22:17:09




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 Re: Re: Case 450 Sinking Bucket in reply to Dale(MO), 06-28-2004 20:50:37  
Dale,
Thanks for the reply.
I did not realize that the spool valves were a machined fit. Don't know where I got the impression that they had O-rings. I've seen various spool valve combinations locally. Should not be a problem to find a replacement. So far the Case dealer has been pretty good on parts. I might try them.

Were your cylinders hard to rebuild? Other than getting the caps unscrewed, was it a problem?

Thanks,
John

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Dale(MO)

06-29-2004 18:52:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Case 450 Sinking Bucket in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 06-28-2004 22:17:09  
John, The spool valves have o-rings, I failed to mention that. But the internal parts are machine-fitted to close tolerances, and those tolerances are very critical to it operating for a long time. Replacing the o-rings may fix it, but it may be a short-lived venture. The cylinders on my Allis weren't that hard to rebuild, but they weren't the easiest, either. Mine were in bad enough shape that I had new pistons and rods made, and remachined the end caps, but new parts were impossible to find for it. My pistons were of a three-piece design, and threaded onto the rod. You had to set the seals and wipers onto their respective areas, hold the piston together, and thread it onto the rod without it coming apart, or you would take a real chance on cutting or mashing them. I don't know how the Case cylinders are made, but they are probably a better design and easier to work on, after reading one of the other posts on this topic and seeing the time-frame and price at that dealer in SC. Just take your time, pay attention to the little details, and you'll get it done. I always like to think like my Grandpa did - If someone was smart enough to build it, I should be smart enough to fix it. Good luck, and keep us posted!

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