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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Going rate for dozer work

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dirthog

06-29-2004 16:08:44




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I've been picking up alot of work with my 350 case dozer lately. I have been charging $50.00 hr plus a flat $125.00 hauling fee if the job is within 30 miles. I'm wondering if I'm charging about right or not. I live in the Binghamton NY region.
Right now I have someone haul the machine for me, although I would like to haul it myself. The machine weighs 10,000 lbs, so I believe I can't pull it on a trailer without a CDL. If I was to use a rollback I should be able to haul it without a CDL if the total weight of the truck and dozer is less the 26000 lbs. Am I right on this ? The rate my old lady wrecks cars I kinda think I'd rather have a rollback anyhow.

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dirthog

07-06-2004 03:33:13




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
Guy's, thanks for all the replys, even the ones I didnt fully agree with. Around here we don't need to be licenced to run a dozer and yes I am fully insured. I know most all the real excavators around here and none have a problem with me maybe getting a little work. The guy who hauls my machine is a full time excavator and he doesnt seem to mind making a quick $125.00 to haul my machine just a little ways. By the way I've been around the building scene here for about 25 years and have seen some good operators, me and my little case 350 can doze circles around alot of them. And no I never want to be a big time excavator, I have enough problems ! lol.

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Ron

06-30-2004 18:55:31




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
I live in the boonies. Lots of small time guys who can't break even. They don't have the skills. The guy who makes all the money has a D9 and gets $1,000/day with a 1 day minimum. Nobody cares what equipment you have, they want a logging road or access road built and he knows how to build them.



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Grant

06-30-2004 18:48:03




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
Here in Maryland We've had guys charge 100+ for a cat 953. It's amazing that they can get the work, but at the same time resale value of those cats are so high (compared to any other trackloader), you almost have to charge that much to cover costs of buying a USED machine. I've seen BEAT 953Cs go for 30K. Anyways, 50 an hour sounds about right for you. I think our bulldozer guy gets 75, but thats with the cat, plus his rig to haul it. The rule of thumb is 1000$ for digging out the house foundation. Have fun with the dozer, those are fun to work with. We used to do our own foundation holes, grading, and seeding with a deere 455 trackloader. A little small, but an alright machine. Traded it for a case backhoe and never looked back.

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Tony C

06-30-2004 15:13:43




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
Do you have to be insured, and licensed with the state to do excavating ??? In Oregon we have to be or you can get a hell of a fine if caught working non compliance. 50$ sounds ok with a little case 350. Tony (we are required to be lincesed and bonded with the Oregon CCB)



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Hal

06-30-2004 14:11:56




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
Actually what you say about requiring a CDL for the trailer in New York is not correct. Take a look at NYS DMV Form MV-500C which you can get at any DMV office or is on their website.
With a regular class D automobile drivers license you can operate a trailer with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs as long as the the tow vehicle is not over 18,000 GVWR and the GROSS COMBINATION weight is 26,000 or less.
So if the machine is 10,000, lets say the empty trailer is 6000 (and that should be heavy enough) that leaves you 10,000 for the truck; a dually or even a F-450 shouldn't be anywhere near 10,000#. If you pick the right combination you should be able to get it to work safely and legally (in NY anyways).
DMV says for Class D "MAY TOW A VEHICLE WITH A GVWR OF MORE THAN 10,000 LBS. PROVIDED THE GCWR IS NOT OVER 26,000 LBS."

Also look at this link for New York form CDL-101, it explains the same thing:

Link

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dan-o

06-30-2004 07:27:50




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
Invest a little time and get the cdl. It would cost less than a rollback
dan-o



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Farmer Gene (NW WI)

06-30-2004 05:55:30




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
If you're happy with 50 an hour and are making a profit I wouldn't worry about what everybody else charges, the township here charges 60 an hr. If I'm paying top dollar for a job I expect a perfect job, no screw ups. If I'm getting a lower rate, a few mistakes don't bother me so much.



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Robert

06-29-2004 20:52:20




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
$50.00 per hour, you don't know your costs of doing business do you! I really suggest that you spend a few dollars and talk to a C.P.A. for advise, they will do some research and come back with information on how to figure out what you should charge to cover your fixed and vaiable costs and a wage. As of now at $50.00 if you would look at the costs verse revenue you would discover you are not making any wages! There are many people like you in this business and you are hurting every one by not knowing what it costs to own and operate heavy equipment. Again find a C.P. A. and ask for HELP. If you don't want to ask for help, get your hands on a Caterpillar Performance Handbook and study the section under "owning and operating costs" it will be an eye opener for you. My two cents.

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dirthog

06-30-2004 03:29:22




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 Re: Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to Robert, 06-29-2004 20:52:20  
Actually I doubt I'm hurting anyone but myself with my prices, I take little jobs that no one else seems interested in. I've also been in business for myself for over 20 years and I seem to be doing alright. Thats why I asked the question in the first place, not so I have to hire a cpa for the first time in 20 years. I do know that this past sat. I brought in $400.00 with it. About $20.00 went for fuel. So that leaves 380, I'm not greedy so figure in 200 for me, that leaves 180 for machine maintance, ect. Of course I don't drive around in a brand new dually diesel pickup ect. ect. like all the rest of the real excavators I see around here. It kinda burns my butt when someone suggests I'm hurting others by working for a little less when I have to low bid jobs all the time to keep my construction business going.

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JoeinTX

07-03-2004 22:31:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-30-2004 03:29:22  
Dirthog, I have to agree in large part with you. I've heard this stated many times before regarding "what the going market rate is, etc, etc." and it's always left my jaw hanging in absolute disgust. If an individual, like yourself, can perform the same (or a suitable) job for a lower rate and do so comfortably versus the next guy....THAT IS THE MARKET AT WORK. Now, what befuddles me is the professional excavator who has to charge $70/hr using the same equipment for the same job that you can charge $50 for and he barely breaks even. Now, I know, I know....insurance (which I carry as well), overhead (don't we all...?), upkeep (uh, me too). You, as the smaller guy charging less, should not be forced to raise your rate to suit everyone in the business. You're responsibility is to the potential customer-not the operator down the road. If you are serving the customer at an agreeable rate, performing the task, and making a profit..well, more power to you. Now, I know the angle the bigger excavators are playing-if the small timer raises his rates then the big timer with the originally higher charge starts to look better to the customer. I'm not trying to sound like I dislike the bigger operators because I hope to be one some day myself...but the "better charge the market rate blah blah.." will never leave my mouth.

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VaTom

07-05-2004 04:43:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to JoeinTX, 07-03-2004 22:31:42  
Hi Joe,

A lot of the difference is overhead, particularly in machinery. I went to see a guy work who was reputedly the best operator around. Had a shiny new Cat. Very fast. When he took a break I asked how much he had invested. Answer was $200k.

This guy was getting $72/hr (a few years ago) while I was getting $55/hr. But my tractor investment was only $7500. Who was making more money?

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Dale(MO)

06-30-2004 16:18:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-30-2004 03:29:22  
Dirthog, Thank you!!! I have fought the same battle here in MO for about 16 years now (4 of those in the water well drilling business). Everybody thinks you make all the money in the world, so you should do their job cheaper; then when they get someone else to do it, the other person charges more in the end, but that's OK. I low-balled lots of jobs just trying to get them, and usually ended up losing out on the good end of the project because the customer played golf with some of my competition. It took a while doing the little jobs to figure out that if I bid everything to make money, not just to get it and hope to break even, that I made good money on the ones I got, and the ones I lost didn't matter. I figure there's plenty of work for everyone, and the price-shoppers don't really want to pay for it anyway. I think if you're happy with what you charge, and you are making a living, more power to you! Here in my area of MO, most people are getting $70-$80 per hour for a 455 or 555 John Deere, but I know a guy who only charges $70 per hour for his 955 Cat. Last year, he got $60, and 2 or 3 years ago he only got $50. He is happy, has lots of work, and makes good money doing it. So, like I say, if you're happy, I'm happy for you. Good luck!

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Dale(MO)

06-29-2004 19:04:48




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 Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to dirthog, 06-29-2004 16:08:44  
Yes, if the combined weight of the truck and load is 26,000 or less, you won't need a CDL. It may be a little tough to find a rollback with a good steel bed that weighs 16,000 or less, unless it is a one-ton, and I wouldn't recommend that. It may have enough power to pull it, but I think you will be lacking in the brake department. Just my opinion. On the pricing, that size machine in my area (east-central MO) should bring $50.00 an hour. I have heard of people charging a haul fee, but I never worked for anyone who would have paid it. I always had a minimum fee (usually 2 hours for my small equipment, such as a bobcat, or 4 hours for larger machines, such as a dozer or highlift). That always worked out pretty well - it made it worthwhile to do the little jobs (they're usually the farthest away), and it kept the be-backers from bothering me and trying to haggle me on my price. But it sounds like you are in line.

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Jim

06-30-2004 07:23:55




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 Re: Re: Going rate for dozer work in reply to Dale(MO), 06-29-2004 19:04:48  
Down here in the middle of Texas, you usually can get a Case 650 size tractor for $50 . There are many small operators trying to get the small jobs that the big guys don't want to bother with, so the competition is rather intense.



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