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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Dry clutches--are they that bad?

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LD

08-22-2004 19:37:29




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Found a JD machine that has everything i need, just one repair needed-winch. I think it has the dry steering clutches. It is power steering but not a C model. They are in working order, steers fine. I hear some say they would not have a dry clutch machine. This one's on a farm and used seldom. I'm assuming all older machines had dry clutches until wet clutches came about. There seem to be plenty of old jd crawler enthusiasts too. Comments and opinions welcome.

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JD dozer mike

08-24-2004 18:30:40




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to LD, 08-22-2004 19:37:29  
I have a Jd 440 (dry clutch) They can stick, i have never had a problem with it but one junker i brought home was stuck . Mine sits for 2-3 months sometimes and no problems. I have seen stainless steel clutch plates so you don't have to worry about rust, . The one thing i'm not thrilled about on the Jd 440 is the fact that to get to the clutches to replace them , you need to split the track and remove the final drive assembly, (big job). I also have an Allis chalmers H3 i started working on , i think it looks like it was built better , and it appears(not sure though) that the clutches can be removed through the top access cover.
All in all , personally , dry clutches are good in my opinion.

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Dale(MO)

08-24-2004 20:06:30




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to JD dozer mike, 08-24-2004 18:30:40  
Yes, the clutches on your H3 load out the top of the clutch case. You have to pull the seat and frame, the hydraulic tank, and the sheet metal to do it, which is probably the biggest pain involved. Once the little stuff is off, I can have the clutch out in about 30-45 minutes. They are really very simple. I redid the seat frame on mine to where it doesn't cover the clutch covers, and I cut that section of sheet metal so I could remove it without removing anything else, that way I can remove the brakes and clutches without having to remove all that other stuff (I had problems with the axle clip on one side - everytime I turned around, it popped off and the axle came out of the clutch.). The only JD I have worked on was a 1010, and it was a real pain to pull the clutch assembly. Just like your 440, you have to split the track and pull the final drive; and on them, if you don't have everything lined up exactly right going back, you'll cause some major damage. On your Allis, once you pull the clutch assembly, there are only 4 nuts holding the final drive case to the differential. MUCH simpler! But, I'm with you on the dry clutches. My Allis has set outside for over a year with no problems. I think dry clutches are just fine. Good luck with your H3!

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vapet

08-23-2004 19:06:02




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to LD, 08-22-2004 19:37:29  
Replaced the steel disc in my 350B 16 years ago due to rust. Bought unit used and steered very hard. Find after repair and no problems since. I did seal everything up with gasket sealer and is clean and dry when I adjust clutches. Sits sometimes for two months. Only problem I have found is in summer sitting for few weeks is snakes. Don"t like the looks of them looking out of battery compartment.

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LD

08-25-2004 08:31:52




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to vapet, 08-23-2004 19:06:02  
Yikes! I don't like snakes one bit. There are always bees and mud hornets making homes in my stuff. Keeping a can of spray near takes care of them. We have a similar problem, but so far just shedded skins that close. No eye ball encounters up close sitting next to me. We do get them a few feet away, just inside the shop door. I keep an axe and an 8 foot piece of pipe right in the corner where you open the door. If I see them first, I pin them down with the pipe then behead them. Not easy on the floor or axe but i can live with chipped concrete. I chased one to the back once and he went in my floor drain to the dirt bottom. A small amount of barbque fluid squirted on him and a match took care of him. I think gas on their skin will poison them too, and it will kill bees but you wouldn't want to risk fire. I think I have got the population down. After 3 kills in one year, I have killed one in the past 2 years. A good snake is a dead snake! Also, got some shop cats - they bring the little ones home frequently, but those are just garter snakes. Maybe they are getting the bigger variety too before they get to be adults.


I am going for this dry clutch machine. It has a winch, power steering, 6-way power blade, rebuilt turbo diesel engine, full ROPS with limb risers, and resealed HLR shift on the fly transmission. The PTO needs to be fixed, the dry clutches and a C- frame crack and transport are the only causes for concern. There are no other machines with these options around for 9K! Hopefully there won't be big surprises after purchase. I believe running the machine correctly, digging out around stumps instead of trying to just push them out will avoid frame cracks. I may be wrong but I think those frame cracks come from running a 450 like it is an 850.

The stainless steel plates are a great idea, that should take care of half of the problem. Along with keeping the gaskets on the covers in good shape or maybe cutting a piece of waterproof canvas to fit over the covers and points of entry so rainwater runs off instead of sitting in voids. The other potential I can think of for water getting in there would be condensation forming inside when the clutches are hot and the air outside is cooler at shutdown. Not sure if anything can be done about that. What about a waterproof clutch material? Does such a clutch exist? How about Kevlar? Does anyone know if they make the stainless plates for Deere 450?

Thanks for all of your ideas, input and opinions. I hope someone can answer the above questions and the discussion can continue. Maybe an enthusiastic after market company will read this and develop parts like high performance parts are made for factory flaws in autos!

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Dozerboy 450

08-23-2004 17:34:56




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to LD, 08-22-2004 19:37:29  
I bought a JD450 almost a year ago. I was reluctant at first to go look at it because of everyone being so down on the dry clutches. I decided to go have a look at it, liked it and took her home with me. It was used by the state dept. for road clearing and am sure it was used heavily but it still starts up instantly even after sitting for a month or more. I have never had any sticking issuses and I have never had to do any kind of major repairs. I try to get it out and move it around at least every two months if not more. I have used it for I would say 60-70 hrs and spent maybe 10 on maint. and small fixes. I would not trade my 450 for anything else. I'm sure there are many people who have had terrible luck with these things, but there are us who use them and enjoy them everyday without a problem. Just my two cents. If you do decide to buy just make sure you really give it a good look over before you invest and I think you'll be fine with what ever you decide to get.

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Robert in W. Mi.

08-23-2004 15:57:45




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to LD, 08-22-2004 19:37:29  
All i can say is, hang around this site for a while, and you will see that deere has a dry clutch sticking problem. Maybe it's the way there made ??? or the material there made of ???, but there's too many guys comeing here with problems with them stuck.

Now, if i was running my dozer often, it wouldn't bother me so much, but i let my dozer sit, sometimes for more than a month as i'm doing other things, not to mention all winter long, so for me, i don't want a deere dry clutch machine around.

BTW, over the years, i've had two different farm tractors have the clutches stick from sitting around too much.

Robert

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Dale(MO)

08-22-2004 20:45:37




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to LD, 08-22-2004 19:37:29  
I have an Allis Chalmers HD3 with dry clutches. I don't have a problem with them at all. It is true that if you let it set for long periods of time, the clutches can stick. A lot of it has to do with the condition of the inside of the clutch case; if is dry and clean (that's a rarity), I don't think it would happen very quickly. If you run in wet conditions, it can happen a little more quickly. Most will agree that they don't last as long as wet clutches, but are you going to be using it to make your living? If so, you might want to consider the condition of the clutches, and what it costs to replace them. If you are using it in a "hobby" fashion, I would just make sure that everything functions properly and not give it a second thought. I can tell you from experience, I ran several cable drill rigs - I've never seen one with anything other than dry clutches - and they ran for MANY years without problems. I figure if dry clutches were so horrible, they would not have been used for so long, by so many manufacturers. Good luck!

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LD

08-22-2004 23:01:25




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 Re: Dry clutches--are they that bad? in reply to Dale(MO), 08-22-2004 20:45:37  
I would imagine most of the interstate roads were made with cable and dry clutch machines. Hope to hear tips on keeping them dry if you can't shed it, like that stuff in bags they put in old cars that are stored. Wonder if something like that under the covers would help? Too bad there isn't a conversion when its time to replace. Thanks for the input.



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