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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Understanding Powershift Transmissions...

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Seann

09-14-2004 17:40:37




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Yesterday I got my loader stuck in the mud. I backed into a soft spot in a low lying culvert area where the left side of my loader sunk into mud and settled in until it was buried up to the frame. The loader was then stuck, tilted at about a 25 deg angle to left. One thing I noticed when I was trying to get out was that the power did not appear to be fully transmitted to the tracks. The motor seemed to be running free with little or no load, the tracks would either barely move or not at all, and the transmission pressure sometimes would fluctuate a bit but then rise back to its normal (green) level. The tranny oil level has always been normal (I check it often), I just checked both the suction filter and the safety filter (both clean other than a few little clutch pack particles, which I assume is normal?) a few days ago and replaced the transmission cartridge filter about a month ago. The machine will normally dig into hard pack clay and push hard. Usually there is no problem with a slipping tranny etc.

So today I added another gallon to the transmission before giving it another try. I thought it might help to get more oil to the oil pump. After starting the loader and putting it in gear I noticed that the tranny oil pressure did not fluctuate as much, mostly staying in the green if the motor was revved up a bit. So the extra oil did seem to help some. But then after putting it in gear, same problem, still no appreciable torque transfer to the tracks. The motor seemed to run free with no load to it.

But then after really letting it warm up for a bit and struggling with it trying to go back and forth, I noticed that the engine started to take more of a load and the tracks were starting to move more. As I continued to struggle like that I noticed the trans oil temp started going up considerably. Once it got to 240 deg F or so (normally it runs about 200-210, same temp as engine coolant), there was definitely much more power transfer to the tracks. Apparently when the oil temp goes up it either increases the friction in the clutch pack and/or it thins to the point where the converter starts working more effectively.

This is where I have a question. I've seen lots of other posts over the past year where someone has a problem with their powershift machine that is similar to this. Where there is no power transfer at first (or under certain circumstances) but then as things get going suddenly everything starts working properly and there is good power transfer.

Do any of you experts know why this stuff happens? Is it the clutch pack finally getting enough friction together as oil temp goes up, or is it that the converter prefers thinner, hotter oil to really start transferring torque properly?

Oh and by the way, once my machine started moving and getting leveled out (after me doing some shoveling under the tracks), it crawled right out of that mess and ran strong thereafter.

Thanks in advance...

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mud

09-15-2004 10:37:51




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 Re: Understanding Powershift Transmissions... in reply to Seann, 09-14-2004 17:40:37  
glad to read you got it out that easily. a whole lot of fellers been worse off, including me.



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Bob/Ont

09-14-2004 18:15:01




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 Re: Understanding Powershift Transmissions... in reply to Seann, 09-14-2004 17:40:37  
Seann, I think you are saying the problem was only present while you where on the angle caused by getting one track sunk into the mud.Then it ran like normal when out. I think the pump was picking up some air due to the oil being on the low side of the trans. It is normal to over fill a trans if you have to work on a steep slope to make sure the pump doesn't pick up air when the oil gets below the pickup tube. Hot oil doesn't make the clutches grab better than oil at normal operating temp. Cold oil in winter-40 deg will cause slow clutch engagement though. Anyway from what you say I don't think your loader was hurt at all by this.
Later Bob

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Seann

09-15-2004 08:32:29




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 Re: Understanding Powershift Transmissions... in reply to Bob/Ont, 09-14-2004 18:15:01  
Thanks Bob, I was hoping you would comment. And I agree with Big C, you're a really big help on this message board. Between you covering Cats, jdmaris covering JD's, George md covering Cases and Deas Plant covering just about everything we have some real expertise here. So thanks for helping us clueless folks out!

Anyway, as an update I got to thinking more about my transmission oil level. I realized I always checked my oil level by removing the dipstick, cleaning it off, then reinserting it, screwing it all the way on and then removing it again to check the level. After thinking about it I wondered if I was not supposed to thread it back on before checking the level. So I checked in my manual and sure enough it does say NOT to thread the cap back on before checking oil level. So effectively when I was checking my oil level, it made it appear that the level was higher than it actually was because I was threading the cap (and dipstick) into the oil deeper than it should have been. So lesson learned there. And like you said if I am working on slopes or if my machine gets stuck on an angle again, I'll add more oil than normally required and hopefully that'll cure my marginal oil pressure problems once and for all.

Thanks again for all the help,

Sean

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Bob/Ont

09-15-2004 09:19:53




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 Re: Understanding Powershift Transmissions... in reply to Seann, 09-15-2004 08:32:29  
You will know when to add oil Sean, it the pump picks up air you will see the pressure gauge act like you saw when you got stuck. You can be low on oil because of a slope and still push but when you shift into reverse it has a hard time making up the oil needed to fill the new clutch you selected and not move for a while.
Later Bob



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BigC

09-14-2004 19:09:35




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 Re: Understanding Powershift Transmissions... in reply to Bob/Ont, 09-14-2004 18:15:01  
Bob....I have watched you give advice to myself and others on this board..I must say you are top notch with your advice and a great asset to this board. If you don't mind can you tell me where the screen is that needs cleaned on the powershift tranny on my 955H. I must admit I haven't looked to hard yet but it doesn't mention it in my manual. Thanks



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Bob/Ont

09-14-2004 19:32:07




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 Re: Understanding Powershift Transmissions... in reply to BigC, 09-14-2004 19:09:35  
I think there is one down on the side of the trans case. I seem to think it's round with a square piece coming off of it but have to check. Email me and I can get back to you this weekend.
Later Bob



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