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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Truck vs Dozer

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Jeremy Sprouse

09-27-2004 14:00:26

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I just bought a 1994 Cat D5C LPG series 3 dozer with 6 way blade for $25,000. It is in very good condition as far as I can tell so far. I was told this is about a 10 ton machine. Does anyone know if a 2001 Chevy 3500HD with 454 will handle towing 10 tons? It will be extremely short tows, less than 10 miles between farms. I was told this truck should be able to tow 12 tons but I'm not too sure about it. Any information would be appreciated, and did I pay too much for the dozer? Thanks JS

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just my 2 cents

10-03-2004 20:23:18

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

We recently pulled a JD 450B home that we bought in another state. One way trip was 259 miles. We pulled it with a 1 ton chevy dually with a 12,000 pound reese pinacle hitch. The dozer and trailer weighed approximately 17,000 pounds. First off, not highly recommended but we didn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter. The trailer also did not have breaks. We took all back roads home which took nearly 10 hours. The truck had a 454 in it nad pulled great, but would not stop at all. The dozers weight pushed us around so we had to be very careful. We made it home just fine and with no problems with the hitch. I just wanted to post that this can be done, but would not do it again. Our truck has a goosneck hitch and were looking for a gooseneck 20,000 pound trailer with brakes, and I think that would be more likely to do the job. Just my 2 cents....

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Kellys

09-29-2004 22:14:52

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

I�ll throw in a little more here, your D5C LGP will weigh in at around 19,812 lbs. That�s a bare tractor with out a dozer, your dozer will weight about 3000 lbs at least, so totaling you out at about 22,812 lbs. Or 11.41 ton.

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Oliver farmer

09-28-2004 15:25:16

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

In between farms? I'd pull it with a tractor, a decent size tractor should handle it with no problems.

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JHesler

09-28-2004 08:00:26

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

The notion that you can pull heavy equipment with a pickup never fails to amaze me. I once posted in hauling schedules and got about ten replies from guys wanting to haul my 18,000 lb backhoe though the mountains with thier F350 + gooseneck. I use a 40,000 lb combination with an IH dump truck that weighs 16,000 lb itself and it's just adequate. I don't care what the manufacterer says it will pull, it's just like OTR says: definitely a case the tail wagging the dog.

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Steven Sladky

09-28-2004 08:22:12

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to JHesler, 09-28-2004 08:00:26

I agree 100%... I have hauled JD450 size equipment for over 30 years with a tandem dump truck and tag along tandem equipment trailer, but many times have wished that I had a semi truck and lowboy equip trailer to do it with. Pickups and trailers with electric brakes are light duty machines even when everything is working like it's supposed to. I shudder every time I meet one of these overloaded rigs on the highway.

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willie j

09-28-2004 06:05:42

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

Jeremy
NO! NO! NO! NO! DON'T EVEN TRY PULLING THAT! GET A BIGGER TRUCK!
GM rates the 3500 series with 454 at 15000# towed load, that includes the weight of the trailer. Besides overloading the engine, trans, frame, tires & axles , in case of an emergency you will be totally, 100% at fault. More than likely your insurance won't cover, so who ever you hit will own everything you now own & everything you earn in the next 50 years.
You need a class"A" (combination)license when the towed load(trailer& load) is over 10,000#.

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GLewis/MD

09-28-2004 05:26:29

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

Jeremy,
I have a fair amount of experience with a similiar rig, 1991 F250 7.3Diesel w/Banks turbo pulling an old style 3 axle 9 ton trailer. I just pulled a 6,500 lb. Case skid steer with extra attachments back from Alabama, 1,000 miles in 38 hours just ahead of Ivan. With this load my gross combination was about 20,000 lbs. My truck is taged for 25,000 gross combination. I pulled it at 65 mph on the highway easily. Locally I pull a 350B Deere 6-way dozer that weighs around 11,000 lbs to jobs within 25 miles. I am pushing my 25,000 lb. limit and as the boys say, you have to watch your stopping distance. I have to start off in FWD low range on any kind of grade and I limit my speeds to 55mph. I have six new brakes on the trailer and the best brake controller money can buy but it still scares me from time to time. To pull and stop with 20,000 lbs. you would need a tandem axle trailer that will probably weigh in at 6,000 lbs. plus. Add the 20,000 dozer, 9,000 lb. truck and you get a whopping 35,000 lb. load. Balancing the load on the tailer to not exceed 1000 lbs. transfer onto the hitch and truck would be difficult. It would put you in CDL territory and I am not sure you could get legal tags for that setup. I think I would want a lot more iron in front of that load. The load transfer onto that single wheel truck on curves and stopping would just plain scare the wits out of me and I am pretty fearless. Find someone else to move for you or buy an old farm truck like and F-600, IH 1700-1800 series, etc. that can handle the load. A lot of guys with machines your size weld fixed beaver tail beds on these trucks and haul the machines that way. It is a lot cheaper and safer. Good luck.

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Dozerboss

10-01-2004 12:50:40

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to GLewis/MD, 09-28-2004 05:26:29

George,
What brand of trailer brake controller are you running? Thanks.

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Anthony

09-28-2004 08:22:20

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to GLewis/MD, 09-28-2004 05:26:29

Do these 1-ton trucks really weigh 8-9,000 lbs like people are saying here? I have a 2000 GMC 3500 and it is around 5200# with 4WD.
8-9000 lbs sounds awful heavy, unless you are talking a crew-cab dually diesel with 4WD and even then it sounds heavy. I would think a regular cab 2WD dually should be closer to 6,000 lbs.
As far as pulling the dozer with a regular 1-ton pickup you would be pushing it. You would have to go with a dual tandem gooseneck like a Big Tex 25GN model and keep the trailer brakes in good shape.
If the 3500HD is the really the HD model with the solid front axle and 19.5" wheels/tires you should be OK for short-medium runs. Farm use and less than 150 miles from base does not require CDL.

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Johndear

09-28-2004 15:24:47

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Anthony, 09-28-2004 08:22:20

Most of the one tons are rated for 12,000 lb tow loads and gross combined of around 19,000. The dozer alone would exceed that. DOT will go by the sticker in the door, usually around 11,500 for a 1 ton plus the rating of the trailer 20,000. So theoretically you get away with 31,500 if you were tagged, licensed, and insured for that weight. The truck would be a death waiting to happen as the brakes can"t take that much weight. At 60 MPH you would take so long to stop you would have to turn around and come back to the wreck you just had! I would consider a F550 as a minimum to run the roads at 30,000 lbs.

For the question do 1 tons really weigh 9,000 lbs, only the Fords and Dodges. The GM products weight as much as 2,000 lbs less for equally equiped trucks. Allot more plastic and allot less steel. Scales don"t lie. My F 350 2wd weighs nearly 8,000, my ex F 250 4x4 weighed 8,000. Crew cab dually 4x4 models will easily top 9,000. So there you go, buy a Chevy and you have 2,000 lbs extra payload capacity.

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Davis In SC

09-30-2004 22:06:07

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Johndear, 09-28-2004 15:24:47

On subject of weights... I took some scrap to sell today & had to cross scales in & out . Empty with me ( Kinda Big) full tank , & some stuff in truck, Dodge 3500 Ext cab 4X4 was almost exactly 8000 lbs.

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Anthony

09-30-2004 22:46:46

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Davis In SC, 09-30-2004 22:06:07

Is it a diesel? Is it a dually? If so, these plus the 4WD plus extracab plus you (Kinda Big) plus full big fuel tanks could be adding way over 1,000 lbs right there.

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Matt Clark

09-28-2004 12:14:51

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Anthony, 09-28-2004 08:22:20

I work with DOT rules and can tell you that you need a CDL anytime GVWR exceeds 25,999 lbs, regardless of distance travelled. That's Fed DOT, and no state can do less. If you cross state lines, that limit drops to 9,999 lbs...

GVWR doesn't even rely on just the load itself, but involves simply the weight ratings. If you're truck's GVWR (on the door post sticker) doesn't meet or exceed the total weight of the trailer, truck and load, you're legally overloaded. IF the truck's GVWR is not exceeded, check the GVWR of the trailer and don't exceed it's weight rating. If the truck is rated at 15,000 lbs (unlikely) and the trailer is rated at 11,000 lbs, you need a CDL, even without a load (yeah, that's right).

Now, given the GVWR's above and the truck weighs 6,000 lbs, the trailer is 4,000 lbs and you put a 15,999 lb tractor on it. You still need a CDL, even though you've not exceeded 26,000 lbs...and you're still overloaded with anything over 5,000 lbs.

Ag exemption may work, but not if you're doing work for hire, only if you're travelling between you own farm units...and you better be able to prove it.

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Dozerboss

09-30-2004 22:55:10

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Matt Clark, 09-28-2004 12:14:51

Matt Clark, how sure are you of your facts? This man is talking about moving his own equipment. He is not asking about moving equipment for hire. CDR means commercial drivers license--hauling for hire. I have been stopped by DOT for chains hauling over 26,000lbs moving my own equipment with no problems. I maybe very lucky or the law men may not be uniformily knowledgeable, but usually a cop looks for anything he can write you on, to meet his quota. The scoop i got was CDL is needed for over 26K hauling for hire. Anyway, when DOT writes a ticket--they have to be right and be able to prove they are right if challenged. I gather from your experience some think they are supreme beings.

I live off an interstate and these 1 ton diesel trucks with gooseneck trailers are hauling up to 30,000lbs gross. They use exhaust brakes to stop the extra weight. Engine, exhaust and transmission upgrades are needed to pull this much with a 1 ton. The majority are Fords and Dodges.

I don't think the gas engine is durable enough. The trailer would need to be rated for 20,000lbs plus the trailer weight itself. Around a 26-27k trailer. This dozer is just a little too heavy when added to the 1 ton truck and the trailer that would be needed to haul it. I see a lot of guys who go heavy with the truck, but still only have a 10 ton trailer that can carry about 15,000lbs. They draw more attention from the DOT than the guy with the 1 ton and gooseneck trailer does.

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guess who

09-30-2004 20:06:44

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Matt Clark, 09-28-2004 12:14:51

matt clark Please tell me if I am right. I believe a 17000 pound plated truck pulling a 9,999 pound plated trailer would be legal without a cdl andif the weight was distribuited propery on the hitch and tires It would be legal up to 26,999 pounds. The trailer in question weighs about 2850 pounds so the pay load on the trailer would be limited to 7150 or so depending on how much weight ends up on the hitch, which would then be counted against the trucks weight. Our state police told me I did not have to go by gross COMBINED vehicle weight rating if I kept the trailer registration under 10001 pounds. They also said if the trailer was plated for 10001 pounds or more that I would need a cdl even if empty and what ever truck pulled the trailer would have to be plated for the total combined weight of the truck and trailer and load. In my home state that means having to get a new title with theheavier gross COMBINED vehicle weight rating on it and the need to pay for the extra trailer weight.

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Anthony

09-30-2004 22:36:49

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to guess who, 09-30-2004 20:06:44

Matt makes some points, but a few things are incorrect.
The CDL requirement on a straight truck starts at 26,001 lbs MGVW. not 26,000; a small difference, but can be important if the door plate on the truck says 26,000#.

A CDL is NOT required just because the trailer is rated over 10,000 lbs. It is only required if the GCWR (gross combination weight rating) is 26,001 or greater. I have included some links. Take a lot at the Fed DOT site:

Link

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LumbrJakMan

09-28-2004 03:49:50

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

Jeremy . The fellows before me have stated a good point . Its proabably going to pull the load fine , But STOPPING is more important. I have a 2004 Ford F-350 single wheels in rear , 6.0 Litre Diesel. 5 speed automatic tranny. I was impressed when I put a John Deere 720 Diesel with Pony Motor 7800 Lbs , and a John Deere 70 with fully loaded tires 8000LBS, on my 6450LB gooseneck trailer , total weight 22,250 LBS. I trucked this load home from New York for a Farmer friend of mine . We live 245 Miles away in New Hampshire . We took the back way through Vermont and Over Hogback Mountain. 6.5 Mile incline about 12% grade , and I was able to go 54 MPH over the Mountain and not even wink an eye . That Ford 6.0 Litre Diesel, is a Bad A$$ truck .

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Jeremy Sprouse

09-28-2004 05:17:37

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to LumbrJakMan, 09-28-2004 03:49:50

Thanks for the comments, sounds like there may be a little too much "pucker factor" pulling the dozer with my truck. I don't have an owners manual for my truck so I wasn't sure on the towing specs. Thanks to all.

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OTR

09-27-2004 20:42:29

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

Think you best leave that "bowtie-cup holder special" in the barn and out of sight if you don't want a tail wagging a DOG.

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catmandoo

09-27-2004 20:33:24

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

if it"s between farms (less then 10 miles) just use a tractor.will definately pull the load and you won"t have to worry about the D.O.T.as it"s between farms.at least thats pretty much the way it works here in iowa.i suppose every state is different and it would be worth checking into the laws to be sure.

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Pete

09-27-2004 19:49:41

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

Add the weight of your truck (8000# + -), trailer capable of hauling 20k# (5000# est) and the weight of the cat (20,000#) and check the owners manual for your truck for the gross combined weight rating. I think you will be overloaded by a considerable amount.

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JMS/MN

09-27-2004 17:05:49

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

A few years ago a local contractor bought a Versatile tractor (500-700 model?) to tow his equipment on a trailer. It runs 20-25mph. Most of his work is within 15 miles. Eliminated a lot of hassles. Especially the DUI. Made good time too.

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Mark/ ca

09-27-2004 14:49:54

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Jeremy Sprouse, 09-27-2004 14:00:26

Jeremy,

I see guys pulling full size back-hoes (16,000 LBS) on goose-neck trailers with 1-ton dually on flat ground. I have a 2001 F-450 Powerstroke, 6 speed and find my limits in the mountains with a bumper trailer is about 15,000 LBS. I will not tow my backhoe, it's just to heavy. I can't remember for sure, but is the truck you are talking about a 1-ton? I had thought it is, so my reply is based on that it is a 1 -ton.

Not sure what your laws are, but that would be over weight here. Thats a lot of weight behind you, even if it is all flat between farms. You still have the possibility of having to stop quickly and so on.

Was is possible that you were told that your truck could tow 12,000 LBS and not 12 tons? Most 1-tons are rated around 12,000 LBS. I can see your auto tranny or clutch getting a serious work out.

So, to answer your question, I would not, in any way attempt to tow a D-5 with a 1-ton. I have no idea about prices on Cat dozers so I don't know if you payed to much. Just my 2 cents - good luck and don't hurt yourself.. -Mark

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Joe in PA

09-28-2004 09:56:40

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Re: Truck vs Dozer in reply to Mark/ ca, 09-27-2004 14:49:54

I agree with everyone else. You definately need a bigger truck and trailer. If your going to be doing it alot, and take it more than between farms look for a diesel with air brakes! I've pull my JD 310 backhoe (12,500lbs) with my 75 Ford 800 330 gas, 5+2 trans, air brakes, Dump truck (14,500 light weight) 30,000 gvw 48,000 combo and tandem axle dual wheeled (8 wheels, 4 brakes) (24,000 gvw). It handles well but on the long hills a diesel would be nice! It might be a whole lot more cost effictive to find someone local who has a set up like this or tractor with lowboy to move it for ya. $50 a pull would be a lot cheaper than $7000+ for the right equipment

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