Picking the right dozer

The pasture have been let go for quite a while. I can"t get in to bush hog them because there are alot of big rocks. I drove through it my my 8n and just about tipped the tractor. So I was thinking a dozer would be the tool to get in and clean out the rocks. Then bush hog, not till, and plant some grasses. There is probably not more than 15 acres of pasture. In addition I would like to make a network of trails through the forest. Probably 5-10km once I criss cross and double back, ect.

My question is - Is a dozer the right machine for this? Bucket or Blade? How big? (I am thinking the smaller the better) Is it possible to get something decent for less than 10k?

I appreciate any comments or suggestions./Doug

Larger machines are quicker but when it breaks - not if - can you economically get it to a shop? Throwing a track on the back forty is not fun.

Pricewise a larger machine for the price of a smaller one seems like more value until you need to fix move or sell it.

Just my $0.02

And I can say after using it for logging and roadbuilding for about 10 months now, I have NOT been disappointed. I don't regret my purchase a bit, I am much better off with this machine then I am with a dozer or a hoe. Sometimes I wonder about a tracked hoe, I've heard they are very nice and very useful...but even these I just can't believe they could be as good as my loader (of same weight/power class). There are times I need to transport many scoops of topsoil or road base material a few hundred yards...can a big, expensive tracked hoe do that? I don't think so, or certainly not without a lot of trouble and wear and tear.

No, based on my experience I would strongly advise getting the biggest tracked loader you can afford. Don't fear the larger machines. I did, let's face it they are intimidating. I was intimidated by my machine when I was looking at it initially, it weighs almost 11 tons! I couldn't believe I was going to buy such a behemoth. But that extra size came in REAL handy during my job. If you have a bunch of boulders and a lot of acres to contend with, go with a bigger machine. You'll have to work it less, and therefore be less likely to break something (especially with older machines). Plus, most amateurs/farmers/non professional users tend to shy away from larger machines because they too are afraid of them. And the professionals don't tend to buy the older machines because they want newer and more reliable machines for their jobs.

So these larger older machines tend to go fairly cheap from my experience. Sometimes no more or even less than much smaller machines of comparable age and condition. For instance, I paid $8k for my machine, and I saw quite a few machines that were roughly 1/2 to 3/4 the size and in similar condition/age selling for about the same price. Plus I'm pretty sure if I was willing to wait and hunt around, I could have found one like my machine for even less than what I paid for it.

Good luck

My main concern with begger equipment is that I am going to tear up my property too much. As I mentioned I wanted to do some work in the pastures and make some trails. Is it possible to drive a big unit through the forest, clear a trail and not make it look a bomb went off. Also if I am working in the pasture do I have to worry about soil compression?

I don't have much experience in trail making or pasture renovation but I picture a little crawler with a 5 foot blade/bucket being easier to control.

What have you found?

Thanks/Doug

And I noticed that Joel above recommends a hoe. It seems a lot of pros recommend hoes with thumbs, you may also want to consider one. For me, I'm still not convinced that they are better than a tracked loader with 4-1 for the small budget amateur. The hoes are EXPENSIVE from what I've seen, plus they cannot move large quantities of dirt reasonable distances without a lot of trouble. They will surgically dig up stumps (and rocks) without bringing along the whole rootball, which is a hassle I have to deal with with my loader. But my loader can still deal with them, its just that the big dirtball attached makes it more difficult to burn the stump (if you choose to do that). There have also been times when I really wished I had a hoe to put in trenching for water drainage on my driveway, and for dressing culvert areas that I just can't really get at with my loader. On the other hand, I can add a hoe to the back of my loader for under $2000 if I'm willing to fabricate the adaptor for it myself.

I discussed the pros/cons of a hoe with a professional excavator in my area and he was really pushing the hoe. It seems alot of professionals sing the high praises of the tracked hoe. But he also had a dump truck and a dozer too. I think if he (a) didn't have those two machines and (b) was restricted to one machine and (c) was restricted to a purchase budget of less than $10k and (d) was restricted to a very limited repair/maintenance budget, then I can't see how anyone would still select a hoe. But, what do I know? I'm just an inexperienced amateur.

Also, there's a bunch of contruction going on in my area (a housing boom really). I checked out 4 separate sites and in each site they had a tracked hoe (usually a big Deere, Cat or Kobelco) along with a tracked loader (usually a Cat 953 or 963), and a small to medium size dozer (usually a Cat or Deere with LGP pads for the muddy conditions where I live). Sometimes they had a few other machines here and there (rollers, skidsteers TLB's etc), but these three machines appeared to be the staples. So anyone who declares the tracked loader dead, is simply not examining the reality of what modern excavators are widely using today.

Anyway, I would give the loader with 4-1 some careful consideration. As far as size is concerned, I would consider and weigh how important it is for you to be non intrusive (i.e. not wanting to tear everything up). A smaller crawler/loader with a backhoe might also be a good consideration (especially if it also had a 4-1 too). But if you're that worried about impacting the soils, you might want to consider a rubber tired Tractor Loader Backhoe (TLB) instead. This machine would take longer to do what you want (than a decent sized crawler), but it would leave less of a mark overall, and almost certainly be more useful to you when all the main work is completed.

Good luck

You mention the 4-1 feature. What is that?

Thanks/Doug

There are also other advantages. One is the ability to unload your load into a higher truck bed. Because the clam opens up, you don't have to tilt the bucket all the way down to dump your load. This enables you to load a higher truck than a conventional bucket does. When the clam is opened up it also extends the reach of your machine. I've had dirt piles, stumps and debris that were just out of my reach with the bucket closed up. But after opening it up it extends the reach a few more feet so that I can "hook" the clamshell over the stump, rock, pile or whatever and then drag it closer to me so that I can really get ahold of it. After using the 4-1 for the past year, I can't imagine not having it - it adds a bunch of utility to a loader.

Here's a pic of my machine with the 4-1 bucket opened up:

Link

And here's another pic of the overall machine, you can see the 4-1 hydraulic ram on the backside of the hinged bucket:

http://www.redpowermagazine.com/uploads/upload.cgi/ldrleftsmall.jpg

As was said it's a compromise. A loader can dig, but can't grade a ditch bank or road or push through a trail in woods like a dozer can. Don't think The loader bucket that converts to a partial dozer blade is going to work very well in rocky soil. Marginal even in ideal conditions. I believe a JD 350 is too small a machine for stumps or rocks. A 450 size --about 65 hp can still be transported under the CDL limit with the right truck and trailer. CDL is touch and go depending on the locals, here if your transporting your own equipment for your farm and are not hauling for hire, you can go over 26,001 lbs without a cdl license. Canada I'm sure has differant laws. Pennsylvania is one of the worst in the US for transport laws. Ideally i'd like to have a 450 size dozer and a 350 size loader on the property taking transport as a factor. If your buying equipment you may as well consider transport as a factor, leaving the option of using it to make you $. The smaller machines just take longer to do the job.