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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

REBUILDING A HYDRALIC CYLINDER

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todd from In

10-01-2004 20:22:00




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I have a leaking backhoe dipper cylinder on my 580 Super E Case. I have never rebuilt one before. Any advice on what parts I need and on disasembly and reasembly would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.




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NC Wayne

10-03-2004 20:35:14




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 Re: REBUILDING A HYDRALIC CYLINDER in reply to todd from In, 10-01-2004 20:22:00  
As a heavy equipment mechanic by trade I agree with most everything said in the previous posts. Packing a cylinder isn't that hard of a job, just use a little common sense. The only thing I saw that IS NOT a good idea is using the machines hydraulics to remove the piston and rod from the barrel. I have seen it done in cases where there was an extreme amount of damage to the cylinder barrel, it was an experienced man doing it in a large wide open field, there wasn't any other way and it isn't pretty. When the piston finally broke free it flew nearly 50 yards and left a oily mess behind it. On a cylinder that small you should have no trouble pulling it out by hand after you get the gland loose. If it is tight and doesn't want to come out replace the gland. Then with the cylinder rod aimed in a safe direction, and something placed over the port on the head end to catch any oil left in it, put shop air to the bottom side of the piston and let that force the piston to the top of the barrel. From there you shouldn't have but an inch or two left to get it out once you remove the gland. The low pressure from shop air is enough to launch the piston and rod like a missle, and as in the example I gave above the high pressure from the hydraulics is even worse. Be safe and good luck.

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Exdynahoeman

10-05-2004 15:32:30




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 Re: REBUILDING A HYDRALIC CYLINDER in reply to NC Wayne, 10-03-2004 20:35:14  
Quote "I have seen it done in cases where there was an extreme amount of damage to the cylinder barrel, it was an experienced man doing it in a large wide open field, there wasn't any other way and it isn't pretty. When the piston finally broke free it flew nearly 50 yards and left a oily mess behind it. On a cylinder that small you should have no trouble pulling it out by hand after you get the gland loose. If it is tight and doesn't want to come out replace the gland."

I certainly agree with your safety concerns. I tried everything possible to remove a couple of those pistons the correct way. I even resorted to using my 4 wheel drive truck and a chain and that piston still refused to come out. I just slowly kept just enough pressure on the lever to ease it out, left 5 gallons of fluid spilling out of the container I had below it but it did come out safely. Turns out that the cup seals were so bad that the inverted themselves within the cylinder and refused to budge. That was part of my hydraulics bogging down too!!!!

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NC Wayne

10-05-2004 21:01:34




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 Re: REBUILDING A HYDRALIC CYLINDER in reply to Exdynahoeman, 10-05-2004 15:32:30  
Hey,I didn't mean anything personal by my comments, I just wanted this guy to understand how dangerous removing a piston the way you suggested could be. He obviously isn't that experienced and that in itself makes this kind of thing even more dangerous. In the case I mentioned the barrel had a small dent in the side right before the gland so putting the gland back would actually have prevented it from coming out or even moving any further. In your case I would have recomended the same thing I did in my first post, replace the gland and let the hydraulics push the piston all the way to the top or use compressed air to do it. This does two things first it keeps the assembly from flying out and secondly it keeps the piston true with the bore. Simply trying to pull one out and letting the rod droop and cock the piston in the bore can cause the whole thing to bind and stop moving. Either way once you got it to the top of the barrel you should have been able to work it enough to get it on out. But you were there and I wasn't so that wasn't my call to make. Too I'm used to dealing with larger cylinders than ya'll are talking about. If you take a cylinder with a 6" bore, or in some cases even larger, even shop air at 150psi creates enough force on the piston to launch a rod hard enough to kill you, or best case hurt you really bad. Except for a case like yours or unless there is cylinder damage the piston should slide right out, especially if the packing is worn slap out. Working on equipment like I do I'm always seeing things done that in most cases aren't really the "best" way or the "safest" way to do the job, but it's often the only way it can be done for whatever reason. What really gets me though is when something like this is done and there is no thought to safety at all. Doing something a cetrain way may not be the safest way to do the job but that doesn't mean it still can't be done in a safe manner. Just like explosives aren't really dangerous if handled properly, but they can blow you all to pieces if you don't. Like I said, nothing personal. The way I see it we're all here to share our experience and help each other out. To me that imparts the responsibility of making sure the person your helping realizes the possible dangers of what your telling them to do. I'd hate to know somebody got killed doing something I told them to do. At the same time if I told them in black and white what to do and not to do, and warned them of the potential hazards and they decided to play dumb and ignored those warnings and went ahead and did what I told them not to do then I might feel bad for their family over their death, but I will never mourn the loss of a stupid person due to their own stupidity..... . Just my .02

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EXDYNAHOEMAN

10-02-2004 16:07:33




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 Re: REBUILDING A HYDRALIC CYLINDER in reply to todd from In, 10-01-2004 20:22:00  
Some of those bigger cylinders you really have to think about. You can be killed if your not "aware" of where the pressure is and whats gonna fall where when a line is removed. Use common sense, stay clear and lay it all flat if your unsure about bracing. Some cases you have to disconnect the linkage pin on one end and then use the hydraulics to pull the rod or cylinder body away from another part of the machine. Or disconnect the whole boom and dipper stick after it is blocked up and drive the machine away. If you aren't all set up to lift a cylinder off the machine with another backhoe, 5 friends or a chainfall, some of these cylinders are large and you need to figure out how to deal with it. I sometimes left the cylinder body itself in the machine. Then you remove the big cylinder cap or top with a monster pipe wrench or spanner with a extension pipe as posted before and only took out the piston and packings with a big rubbermaid container underneath to catch the oil. Both hyd lines must be removed for the guts to come out as they are fluid/airlocked. Pistons can be hell to remove from the cylinder - the shops have a jig/frame that they mount your cylinder onto and then using your eyelets, a hydraulic cylinder itself is used to push and force the piston and guts from the cylinder itself apart. If the piston won't come out, mount it on the machine, hook it back up and slowly carefully use the hydraulics to push it right out of the cylinder (lots of oil leaks this way!!!). Shine a light in the cylinder body and if there are no dents in there you can clean it and cover it while you replace the seals and cups etc. Then you merely slide the piston assembley back in with the hoses off th cylinder and pop it back in. I would also suggest remounting the piston eye back into the backhoe with the cyliner mounting pins holding it so you can remove the massive nut that holds the packing, seals, cups, spacers etc. Backhoe parts that people try to work on from there 6" Vice, tear vices out of tables. These parts are all tighter than shi! - use the machine to your advantage if you can. I use to buy what ever socket I needed each time for the big nut in the packing, 3/4 drive and Taiwan made for about 12$ would do the job very well - you'll find you need monster tools for this task - like 1.75" sockets etc. Any hydraulic shop can sell you seals, get a good wiper seal as they clean the dirt off the piston and are most important. If the rod is OK - Not too pitted and not bent then you just clean it and toss it back in. I had a Dynaslow - a 17K lb. machine with cylinders ranging form 2" to 3" piston diameter and 4"to 8" housings. I did most all of the work by myself, alone and with limited tools and experience. GOOD LUCK

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Terrance

10-02-2004 08:40:16




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 Re: REBUILDING A HYDRALIC CYLINDER in reply to todd from In, 10-01-2004 20:22:00  
I just rebuilt 3 cylinders on my 580SE, not a hard job at all. The best thing you can do to make this and anyother cylinder repair go smoothly is to purchace the spanner wrench from Case, it is adjustable for many different sized glands. It is pricey it was around $70.00, but well worth the investment. You will also nees a 3/4" breaker bar and a cheater pipe, as well as the new packings from Case or any other hydraulic supplier.The bolt that holds the piston to the rod is metric 28mm if I remember you will need the 3/4"breaker bar and cheater pipe to undo this, support the rod well. The piston packings are easy to replace, an o-ring pick comes in handy for changing the seals and wipers in the gland. Oil everything up well with clean hydraulic oil and assemble it , I use an automotive ring compressor to help slide the piston/rod assembly into the cylinder. Tighten the gland very tight as I am sure it was in the begining and install the cylunder back on the tractor.
Hope this helps
Terrance

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