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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

What does Under Carriage at xx% mean?

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Bill Guenther

10-13-2004 15:57:07




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I am looking at purchasing an old crawler or dozer and I have been researching these sites to learn about what to consider. I keep seeing the remarks about Undercarriage at 40%, 60%, etc. I don't understand what is being measured or conveyed by these percentages. Would someone mind helping me become smarter?
My advanced thanks to any responders.




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Tom in Pa

10-15-2004 17:34:57




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-13-2004 15:57:07  
Undercarriage has a hardened/treated surface. Parts wear more slowly to that depth, then wears more rapidly thereafter. That's why factory numbers are more conservative on their percentages. Their numbers are geared to full-time, heavy duty users,contractors, etc. The handyman/homeowner can usually work the machine for a long time.



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Karen

10-15-2004 04:36:44




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-13-2004 15:57:07  
We have a chain wear chart on our site. Just one thing...the industry standards for wear is very rigid, and a homehomer or hobbiest machine is still has 50 to 60% left even when the chart says 100%. Email me if anybody wants the link.



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JDWayne

10-14-2004 05:57:21




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-13-2004 15:57:07  
It's kind a like some one telling you that the tractor you are looking to buy only has 60% of the rubber left on the tires and then when you go to look at it , it only has maybe 25% left.



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JMS/MN

10-13-2004 22:12:16




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-13-2004 15:57:07  
For years I've noticed the same terminology, and understood what they meant. Only recently I've gotten actual figures to go by. Looked at a Cat D2, learned that the new rails measured 3.00 inches. 2.75 inches was considered worn out, so the one I looked at, I measured 2 7/8 inches, was 50 percent worn. One-eighth inch of wear was half shot. Pins and bushings were not yet turned, so there was a lot of life left in the UC. For the novice, the best bet is to take an experienced person along when you look at a machine you might want to buy.

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TimV

10-13-2004 19:33:02




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-13-2004 15:57:07  
Bill: To expand on Bob/Ont"s comments, it"s the percentage of wear left in such items as the pins, pads, sprockets, bushings, rails, etc. of the undercarriage. Note that though there are ways of precisely defining the percentage of wear (typically by measuring (for instance) the diameter of a pin or height of a rail and comparing it to a factory-new one) most people pull this number out of their ear, and usually err on the "optimistic" side. Take this number with a grain of salt unless you"re VERY familiar with the ability and integrity of the seller.

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Bill Guenther

10-14-2004 05:29:09




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to TimV, 10-13-2004 19:33:02  
Thanks for explanation. It leaves me with the question -- What source of information is used to determine the "worn out" condition? Is this type of information typically in service manuals?



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M Hamilton

10-15-2004 18:25:51




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 Re: xx% wear, novice advice, practical for me in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-14-2004 05:29:09  
I just purchased my first crawler, here are a few time saving tips that worked for me, The guys that are advising you obviously have decades of experience, I find their vast depth of knowlege overwhelming, like anything if they are used to it, it's as easy as a good golf swing, Dont get me wrong the experienced guys are unbeatable, but for first timers, I can speak to that language... here we go.. (Experts, please excuse my simplistic approach and correct me if I am wrong, I don't want to mislead or OVER simplify) ...

1) go to a dealer who has used equipment and get him to show you what a BAD under carriage looks like, study the look of the pins, grooved rollers etc. he will explain the various pieces and you will then by process of elimination know what BAD looks like, what NOT to buy and therefore also what GOOD should generally look like.

2) once you know what bad looks like, your eyes are the best guide, The pins should be round, wear will be simply reflected in the roundness, check the surfaces of the rollers to see if they are grooved or not.

3) move the machine, make sure all the rollers and idlers are turning.

My theory is that these items are the leading indicators that can highlight many related problems, at least it's the practise I used. Get the experienced guys to guide you through the rail wear checks and sprocket stuff, take a micrometer and use it.

Mike

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TimV

10-14-2004 08:46:45




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-14-2004 05:29:09  
Bill: A particularly good service manual MAY have the information, but often a dealer will have it as well. This assumes you're dealing with a "regular" brand (Cat, Komatsu, JD, etc.) that still has a service network. On "orphan" machinery, you may very well be on your own--either not enough machines were made and ran to determine these values or the dealer network may be nonexistent. A lot will depend on what you're using the machine for. Even a poor undercarriage can be used for a long time if you're careful and know its limitations. A friend works at a large construction company and frequently runs one of their D7 Cats. The machine is incapable of making a left-hand turn--the track will fall off. It's been this way for at least 5 years, and the machine is used almost daily. They just use it for straight-shot dirt moving and only make right-hand turns.....

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Bob/Ont

10-13-2004 16:06:59




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bill Guenther, 10-13-2004 15:57:07  
Bill it should mean the % left before replaceing the entire undercarrage. The undercarrage is the biggest expense in running a crawler tractor.
Later Bob



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wagner

10-14-2004 09:17:17




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to Bob/Ont, 10-13-2004 16:06:59  
here is what i am going. I picked out 8 crawlers models which interested me. i purchased a service manual for each. I called cat and j.d. because I knew the would have measurements.

I studied the manuals. I have found a crawler model of each and I go look at it and measure the undercarriage.

knowledge is power and also allows you to dicker on the price.

the cost of the manuals was worth the price in self education.

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Bob/Ont

10-14-2004 18:23:21




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 Re: What does Under Carriage at xx% mean? in reply to wagner, 10-14-2004 09:17:17  
A VERY WISE move.
Later Bob



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