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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need help

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Dave Newman

11-27-2004 11:41:54




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I have a nice running JD450 loader

When I move the control handle to work the bucket functions the pump seems to make a loud noise, and vibrates through the system, it will move the bucket very slowly about 8 inches and stops

I have checked the resevoir and it is full, I have cracked some of the lines with the tractor on and off and there is oil in the lines, and when it is running there is some pressure, but not blasting out of the loose fitting

How do I tell if I have a valve problem or a pump problem. I do not see a filter, which I thought may be the problem

If I have to remove the pump, which is front mounted, do I have to remove the hard nose, or will it fit out through the space provided

thanks in advance for any help
Dave

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Dave Newman

11-28-2004 05:52:16




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to Dave Newman, 11-27-2004 11:41:54  
Thanks for the info, and the quick reply

I am going to try the filter approach first and see how I make out. If I get back on it today I will post a follow up later

Dave



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jdemaris

11-27-2004 19:20:41




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to Dave Newman, 11-27-2004 11:41:54  
The 450 loader has TWO filters, not just one. There is a suction filter and a return filter. When the suction gets plugged the hydraulics will barely work. On the top of the hydraulic tank there is a cover bolted on with 3/8" bolts. There is also a return-filter-restriction indicator sticking out the top. If it's been run a long time with one of the return-filter plugged, or too thick oil, the indicator might be broken. It's a little metal peg with a pin through it. If you see it jumping up and down, there is a problem. IT IS NORMAL, however, for it to come up a bit when the oil is cold - even when the return filter is clean. Anyway, unbolt the cover, and lift it off -straight up. There is supposed to be a replaceble filter cartridge bolted to the cover. If it's not there, it fell off. This is the return filter. It is supposed to be held on by a very long bolt, and there is supposed to be a long metal bushing that goes inside the filter - thus enabling you to tighten the bolt firmly without crushing the filter. What often happens, however, is the bushing gets lost (usually at the bottom of the tank), the filter gets put on with JUST the bolt, the bolt can't be tightened very much, and soon the bolt and filter falls off. The other filter, the suction filter, is a reusable fine metal mesh, and is at the very bottom of the hydraulic tank. It is held in by a spring-loaded clip. You have to stick your hand down to the bottom of the tank to get it. Since it is a suction filter, it gets plugged with any debris that enters the oil, and it has no bypass valve. WHEN IT GETS PLUGGED, the hydraulic pump cavitates.

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Dave Newman

11-28-2004 12:16:45




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to jdemaris, 11-27-2004 19:20:41  
You were right, the filters were both clogged with sludge and slime.

the big one was missing the inner sleeve/bushing, but the filter was NOT crushed

The small one was not a washout, but a paper/replaceble style, it was intact, but gummed up badly

I drained the hyd. oil tank and cleaned it and need to replace the filters, but am not sure what tractor I have or which serial # to use.

Under the seat is a tag which reads Type: T5E3m and serial # 046736T

and on the dash panel is another tag that reads Type: F7450 serial # 003422U

I need to replace both of these filters, can you tell me what to tell the dealer about my machine based on those #'s? Or do you have a source for these filters

Also do you know what year this tractor would be?

Thanks again

Dave

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jdemaris

11-28-2004 20:10:28




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to Dave Newman, 11-28-2004 12:16:45  
I don't have a serial number dating list. First 450 came out around 1966 or 67. Had a small bore engine, not-turbo. Basically the same engine as the 350 except with an extra piston and cylinder and two balancing shafts. Many of these machines did not have power steering. A few years later, the 450B came out. Early Bs had the bigger bore engine that still used straight-cut top piston rings. Later B had a turbo and top piston rings were Keystone. A few years later yet, the 450C came out. It was the first of the series to have wet steering clutches. As far as filters go, any decent industrial dealer should have the return filter in stock. The same one is used in the 1010s, 350s, and 450 crawler loaders. As far as the suction filter goes, the same should also fit all those machines. But . . . you've got me stumped on the "throw-away" filter you found on the bottom. I've never seen one. They all came, originally, with a fine wire-mesh filter held on by a spring clip. Maybe you've got some sort of after-market filter? Or, perhaps Deere doesn't furnish the metal filter anymore. I haven't worked for a Deere dealer since 1989; things have probably changed a bit. Even when the filters are clean, that restriction indicator will pop up a bit when the oil is cold. It should stop once it warms up.

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Dave Newman

11-29-2004 16:52:29




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to jdemaris, 11-28-2004 20:10:28  
You were right, the filter was a fine pleated mesh

I still don't understand my serial # 's as there are 2 different numbers and tags

Dave



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jdemaris

11-29-2004 19:31:57




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to Dave Newman, 11-29-2004 16:52:29  
Perhaps it has a set of numbers for the base crawler itself (i.e. the "450"), and another set of numbers for the loader or dozer assembly. That's the way my Deere 1010 crawler loader is.



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Dave Newman

12-01-2004 16:34:05




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to jdemaris, 11-29-2004 19:31:57  
Put it all back together tonight, got a new filter from the JD dealer, and cleaned the mesh, it works GREAT

Thanks for the help

Dave



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Roy Suomi

11-27-2004 18:32:31




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to Dave Newman, 11-27-2004 11:41:54  
Filter is inside of tank. Filter is return so it shouldn't cause cavitation of pump . It will only bypass return oil without filtering. Usually when pump drive goes bad it sounds like a "sizzling " noise. The nose is on a hinge so it can be tilted down. { Provided someone has put the hinge bars back where they belong}



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Seann

11-27-2004 18:12:54




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to Dave Newman, 11-27-2004 11:41:54  
It may be a plugged filter, causing the pump to cavitate. I don't have a JD, but my filter is located inside of the hydraulic tank. You have to unbolt an access cover on the tank and reach inside (into the oil) and unscrew it from that location. Yours might be in the same place.

Good luck



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Steve in SJ

11-27-2004 16:55:34




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 Re: JD 450 Track Loader- Hydraulic problem, need h in reply to Dave Newman, 11-27-2004 11:41:54  
I had a similar issue with my MF 200,It turned out the coupler between the motor and the pump was bad



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