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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Increasing traction for bucket crawler???

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Joe T.

12-01-2004 10:37:29




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Would it be practical to add "increased traction devices" to the track on a bucket crawler? I understand they don't have as much as blades because they are expected to do a lot more turning with loads. However, I am looking to use one to clean out some trees and move some old foundations. As such, it would be better to have the increased traction temporarily.

Some of the bucket crawlers I looked at had holes in the tracks like they might be made to add some kind of hardware at least. I was thinking about using some heavy angle iron (3/8" to 1/2") bolted crosswise.

Any thoughts pro-con?

Thanks

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Deas Plant.

12-04-2004 23:10:46




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 Re: Increasing traction for bucket crawler??? in reply to Joe T., 12-01-2004 10:37:29  
Hi, Joe T. Unfortunately you didn't mention make or model of your machine. Many makes other than Cat won't take the extra load for any great length of time unless the operator is real careful. Even some Cat track loaders are known to have weaker final drives and will not take it. Most Komatsu track loaders have a good reputation in the final drive department but are aging because Komatsu got out of building track loaders around 15 years ago.

Having said that, quite a few operators DownUnder in the logging industry use Cat 977's, especially K's and L's with full-grousered loader-width track shoes on them for logging, particularly with forks at the loading area or in the mill yard.

I would not recommend using ordinary angle iron bolt-ons 'coz they just won't last. If you plan on using weld-on grouser bar to build up your grousers, do it on the front bar only and DON'T do it on the chain if you have sealed and lubricated track chains. This WILL destroy the seals in the pins and bushes and let all the lubricant out, dramatically reducing the life of your pins and bushes.

Hope this helps.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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jdemaris

12-01-2004 20:24:38




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 Re: Increasing traction for bucket crawler??? in reply to Joe T., 12-01-2004 10:37:29  
We did it at the Deere dealership I worked at. Some machines we welded on 1" grouser stock, and some crawler-loaders were special ordered right from Deere with dozer tracks instead of flat loader tracks. As to the holes you mention. Many crawler pads have holes for ice-bolts. I have the bolts on all my crawlers. Helps to keep you from taking off like an ice skate on frozen ground. If you've ever taken a joy ride - sideways - on a crawler - you'd want them.

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Billy NY

12-01-2004 14:46:52




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 Re: Increasing traction for bucket crawler??? in reply to Joe T., 12-01-2004 10:37:29  
One thing that would concern me is the increased stress on the final drives, a very real possibility of causing a failure, and subsequent costly repair. I suspect the holes you saw are either for snow or landfill operation, to allow the sprocket to clear out built up snow, ice pack or garbage. These are usually larger and in the center of the pad. My old D7 has smaller than the diameter of the pad bolt holes on either side of each pad, possibly for bolt on street pads or something. I would think that bolted on angle may fail under these conditions as you only have the tensile and shear strength of the bolted connection to displace the load, and it would be concentrated, meaning you could distort or break the pad. Drilling larger diameter holes and using more and thicker dia. bolts to make the connection in the pads would increase the strength of the overall connection, but is a lot of work, as the pads may be hardened. The angle you install may be mild steel like ASTM 60 ( A-60 ) and will wear quickly under these conditions as it is not hardened.

Welding grouser bar onto the pads is probably the best solution, but before you do so, you should confirm the condition of all of the undercarriage components prior to investing in the material and the labor of installing it, which is another tedious time consuming task especially if stick welding. Say your pins and bushes have a lot of internal wear, are stretched and they are not riding in the root of the sprocket, and you don't have adjustment left, by adding grouser bar, you increase the bite you have into underfoot conditions, get more traction, but you may increase the wear factor beyond normal wear rates, even slip the chain in the sprocket, substantially shorten the life of your already worn undercarriage, as you increase the stress applied to transfer power from the sprocket to the chain ( pin/bushing ). It's all related somehow, best to consider doing some research, by seeing what you can find out what was an undercarriage option for your machine when it was offered new as well so you don't exceed what it was designed for, it won't take long to find a weak spot, especially if you work it hard. You don't want to install new grouser bar that is too tall either.

I do know of a 955 or a 977 Cat (forget now, been awhile ) that had grouser stock installed on the pads, I was in the shop while they were being installed, and very soon after, ( I think the machine had some substantial rebuilding all the way around as well ) it was used 1 mile away to excavate through shale for the new shop building. Cat components are engineered strong, they invested a lot of time and money in this area over many years, as well as their final drives being stronger than most other manufacturers, so depending on the machine you have and it's reputation in the conditions you plan to use it, you may want to do some research, spending a lot of time and money to get more traction just to have some other component fail would be highly undesirable. You say temporarily, 1/2" heavy angle with the highest strenghth bolts you can find, torqued right down may only last for a little while anyway, so maybe it would get you through, if you are careful, I'd be very easy on the machine, pushing stumps out is very hard on any machine, digging around them, undermining the root system 1st and then breaking them out will be less abusive and easier to pop em out.

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Seann

12-01-2004 13:47:18




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 Re: Increasing traction for bucket crawler??? in reply to Joe T., 12-01-2004 10:37:29  
This has been discussed here before. A few people expressed concerns that "skid steer" tracked loaders are not intended for extra traction because it would strain the undercarriage. They believe carrying the extra weight in the bucket and the power required to drive the hydraulics means you should not try to put more power to the tracks (which is what happens when you increase traction). But it seems like the most knowlegeable and experienced folks here feel that it is ok to add grouser bar extensions as long as the ends of them are tapered. The taper is important as it keeps the edge of the grousers from digging into the ground and straining the tracks and U/C during turns. _____ _____
/_____ ____\ tapered _____ _____ |_____ _____| untapered

Eventually I plan on putting some tapered grouser extensions on my loader, as I could use a bit more traction.

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DGH

12-01-2004 13:38:20




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 Re: Increasing traction for bucket crawler??? in reply to Joe T., 12-01-2004 10:37:29  
I have welded gouser bar to the shoes on my JD450C loader because I am working in a hilly area and needed the traction. It works well except you mess up the ground more if working in a small area and do a lot of turning. The drive train can handle it without a problem as it is the same as the dozer. You can destroy anything is you abuse it! If you do make sure you put the bars on the first grouser just above the pin. If you put them in the center or the third grouser you will have a much rougher ride!!

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JimInOz

12-01-2004 13:16:24




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 Re: Increasing traction for bucket crawler??? in reply to Joe T., 12-01-2004 10:37:29  
People sometimes weld proper Grouser Bar to the existing triple grousers,some just use concrete reinforcing bar(it's cheaper).I'm not a fan of doing this,as I believe it's gotta have an effect on machine wear.Most crawler operators have done the work you describe ,without the extra traction.Maybe you need rippers.



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