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jdemaris
01-17-2005 15:12:11
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Re: 450C hard to start when cold in reply to RussT, 01-17-2005 10:59:09
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You didn't mention the history of the machine, so I don't know if this is something new, or you are new to the machine, or it used to start better and now it does not. A 450C, in good shape, should start with no ether or block heater down to 45F with no problem or hesitation. Below that it - it depends on the machine. When the 450Cs were new (and also the Bs, and the older straight 450s), some started down to 20F with no problem and some others would not start unless it was over 50. You must have good cranking speed (takes two batteries), good cables, and the engine must be in good shape. In good shape means that some bozo didn't do a valve job on it and get the valve heads too deep in the cylinder head. That can ruin the engine's cold weather starting. Also, the top piston rings must still be there. There are many machines still running with no top rings left since they were destroyed by using too much ether. Thus the story of engines being "addicted to ether." A 450C will run fine with no top rings left once it is fully warmed up. So will many other engines including my Allis HD4. I ran it all summer that way - but - I had to use ether to get it started, even when it was 90 degrees F outside. The 450C is more tolerant to ether use than the older 450s because it has Keystone tapered-rings instead of straight cut. But, like anything else, they wear out or can be abused. Other than what I already mentioned, there are lesser items that affect cold starting - but to a lesser degree. Injectors, static fuel injection timing, fuel delivery rate at cranking, motor oil viscosity, etc. It was a major issue at our Deere dealership since many of our crawlers were used by loggers, out in the woods where block heaters were not a good option (except for propane). Generally speaking, 350s and 450s were pretty good starting machines until the C series came out. Then there was a quality control issue. We'd have 12 brand new 450Cs on the lot, and we'd go out on a day when it was 10 degrees F out, and six might start right up and run smooth, another two might start with some screwing around, and when they did they'd skip and smoke something awful until warm, and the remainder were a lost cause. We'd either have to load them up with ether, or tow them into the shop and let them warm up. It was obvious that quality was not consistent. When the D series came out, things got much better. We also had the same problem in our Ag. department with the 40 series tractors. We had one particular case, when a customer traded in his old straight 350 and bought a new 450C. The old 350 would start almost down to zero with little to no assitance. The new 450C that he bought would not start, without help, unless it was over 60F - and when it did, it skipped and smoked and groaned, etc. He was ticked off. To make things worse, we took it in the shop and gave him a used 450C loaner that started great. He wanted to know why, and so did we. A few Deere engineers came down from Syracuse, NY. We parked the customer's bad starting 450C next to a new good starting 450C and we started switching parts - with Deere company's authorization. We swapped injectors, cylinder head, pistons, rods, etc., etc. Nothing worked. The bad machine still started bad and the good machine still started good. Finally, we switched cranks - still no difference. So, the engineers decided it was the cylinder block - the only item left that we hadn't switched. Who knows? We finally put the messes back together and sold the customer a different machine. The bad starting crawler got fixed at a later date with a cold-starting repair kit that Deere finally came out with. It made up for bad machining tolerances with the block and piston height with updated sleeve and pistons.
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