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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy!

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RussT

02-07-2005 11:32:30




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My JD 450C batteries are driving me nuts! They will start my crawler in warmer weather but not cool or cold weather. I charged them a day each and still a boost from my ford ranger makes the engine spin a lot faster. I bought a hydrometer which reads in the red (recharge) whenever I test these batteries. So, questioning my charger, I took them to AutoZone where they were charged several hours each. They put a handheld load tester on them and said the batteries appeared good. But my hydrometer readings are well into the red even after the parts store charged them. So is it possible that a battery will load test ok but not pass a hyrometer test? My feeling is these batteries need to be replaced but at $70.00 each it's hard to buy a couple when the parts store says the old ones are good. The batteries I have are John Deere Stongbox. Anyone have an idea? Thanks for any input.

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Heat Houser

02-09-2005 18:14:46




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to RussT, 02-07-2005 11:32:30  
I would recommend doing a voltage drop test to check if you have a high resistance connection somewhere in the wiring to and thru the starter. Take your digital VOM and select VOLTS. Place the red lead in the center of the battery post that has the cable going to the starter. Place the black lead on the starter solenoid post that is connected to the fields.
Crank the engine. (Every time you take a reading)
You should not read much more than 0.3 to 0.4 volts while cranking. (Higher is bad, lower is good)
If you read higher than that, then move the black lead to the solenoid post that has the batt cable attached and again check Voltage drop.
Keep moving back towards the batt until you find the source of voltage drop.(Don't forget to do the ground side seperately as well)
I use this procedure to find a loose battery clamp by placing the red lead in the post's center and the black lead on the clamp.(Test both, power and ground) Which ever post reads high volts is the clamp that is not making good contact. (Helps prevent skinned knuckles and blue air)

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AJK

02-09-2005 04:29:57




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to RussT, 02-07-2005 11:32:30  
Maybe your battries are ok like the shop said, it might be worth whike to remove the starter motor and give it a clean out making sure all the brushes are free and the commentator clean.
AJ



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wilko

02-07-2005 21:08:19




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to RussT, 02-07-2005 11:32:30  
This raises a question I've always wondered about. If you have two batteries and one is weak you have a no-
start condition. If you have one battery and it's shot, you also have a no-start situation. Sure, sometimes you need to put several in parallel to get enough amperage for a really big engine, but that's not the case here. And what is it with using two six-volts in series instead of one big 12 volt?

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jdemaris

02-08-2005 06:17:40




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to wilko, 02-07-2005 21:08:19  
That's not necessarily the case. If both batteries were both just charged, and one is bad
and the other good, a machine might start fine if started soon after the charging. In the
case of the 450C, OEM is two 12 volt batteries in parallel. So, one bad battery does not
nullify the good one - however - higher voltage flows to lower voltage - i.e. a good 12.5
volt battery will be drained down to a lower voltage battery - so after sitting for awhile,
the good battery gets run down. If the bad battery has no voltage or continuity between
the POS and NEG posts, it won't drain the other. Deere used to offer the second battery as optional for cold areas, and southern machines
often came with only one. As far as the difference between having two 12 volt batteries in parallel, or two six volt
batteries in series, or one huge 12 volt battery - they all work the same if the wattage
sums are equal. Volts times amperes equals watts. Two sixes in series can be problematic
at times because of higher amperage carried by the battery cables. If done right, though,
it works fine. Also problematic if one battery is bad you get a no-start condition. With
two 12 volt batteries in parallel - Deere uses two separate ground straps so there is less a
load on each cable. But, again, if one battery goes bad, it will eventually drain the good
battery, but . . . a bad battery won't block the flow of the other if it's any good. With a
single large 12 volt battery - it's just two six volt batteries hooked in series, internally - or
call it six two-volt batteries hooked in series. In the old days of car and truck batteries,
each 2 volt cell was removable - so instead of buying a whole new battery, you only
replaced the bad cell.

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jdemaris

02-07-2005 19:39:43




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to RussT, 02-07-2005 11:32:30  
The problem would be easy to diagnose if the batteries were tested with a real load tester. I suspect the guy who tested your's had a "similated" load tester. A good, old fashioned carbon-pile tester capable of testing each battery at full load will tell you right away. If you have one good battery, and one bad battery, the bad one will draw the good one down to its voltage level. If you live in a cold area, that machine (in the winter) needs two batteries with at least 500 CCA apiece, or one big one over a 1000 CCA.

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J. Schwiebert

02-07-2005 19:00:44




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to RussT, 02-07-2005 11:32:30  
Do you have a voltmeter? Have you checked the voltage of each battery while cranking and the voltage at the starter while cranking?



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chris thompson

02-07-2005 12:31:32




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to RussT, 02-07-2005 11:32:30  
Hello i have the same condition on one of my machines to a point if i use if fairly frequently
its not an issue but if it sits and is quite cold
i might have to boost it !!! anyway what you have is some batteries that are a bit weak they will be still good for the warm weather or you could use them in a pickup truck and get remaining life out of them one of my friends has been doing this because hes tight on cash he picks them up at a dealership and they work great for lesser task !!! anyway advice buy two decent matching batteries and that will end your PROBLEMS !!! if short on cash i have installed many batteries from a batterie rebuilder and have yet to have any problems at all you could consider that too !!! anyway good luck !!!!

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donol60

02-07-2005 12:08:16




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 Re: Help! Battery condition? driving me crazy! in reply to RussT, 02-07-2005 11:32:30  
Buy one top grade 900-1000 amp battery,that will srart your 450 jd, make sure clamps are clean and connections are tight, one good battery is much better than 2 weak ones. DON



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