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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

JD2010

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dr.sportster

02-17-2005 19:34:57




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A freind has this machine in Tennesee.Ithas a new injector.On the old one all writing faced out on the new one the writing faces in and he suspects it is on the wrong side.he said it will start and idle ,rev but has no power under load now.The motor was redone due to a fire and has good compression.Its not much info but he has no computer and Im trying to help him out.any ideas?




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Roy Suomi

02-18-2005 22:31:17




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to dr.sportster, 02-17-2005 19:34:57  
Oh Gosh , not another 10 series that won't run right... Does it run " flat "? smoke gray ? hard starting ? won't run on all 4 ? Same problem I had on a 1010 diesel..Get an IT manual from your local tractor parts store for a 1010 wheel tractor. The timing is 90 degrees off from Deere manual.. Mine ran sweet after retiming...



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jdemaris

02-19-2005 09:50:02




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to Roy Suomi, 02-18-2005 22:31:17  
I've heard similar claims for years and still don't understand what they are based on. I worked for many Deere dealers and have worked on the 1010/2010s since they were new. I've rebuilt MANY of them over the years. I have never had a problem using either the original Deere manuals or the IT manuals. I sometimes like the IT manuals better since they cut out the fluff and just provide the basics. I've heard complaints for years about people not being able to time the fuel-injection pumps properly on the 1010s and 2010s. It is not complicated - not any more than any other tractor as long as you understand, and adhere to basic principles. First of all, if the engine has been torn down, the oil pump MUST be timed properly. If the oil-pump is out of time with the camshaft, you WILL NOT get the fuel injection pump in time. This because the camshaft drives the oil-pump, and the oil pump drives the fuel injection pump. Now, one oddity with the 1010/2010 series is that it is able run with the injection pump 180 degrees out of time. It will run BAD, but it will run. Now forgetting for a minute what make the engine is, and just sticking to basic principles - #1 the engine is put at TDC of compression stroke for #1 cylinder. #2 - the injection pump is put in "inject" position for #1 cylinder by lining up the marks in the timing window, #3 - the injection pump is intalled and tightened up with nothing changing - i.e. the engine is still on compression stroke at TDC, and injection pump is still at "inject" position for #1 cylinder. If these very basic principles are followed, and the injection lines are put in their proper places, it will work and work properly. Engine firing order is 1-3-4-2 viewing from the front of the tractor, and the injection pump rotates clockwise when viewed from the drive end of it. As far as these stories about pumps being 90 degees out of time when following instructions - I've heard it for years, but haven't seen it yet. Same goes for the teams of "expert" mechanics that have the similar problems. I think some people are getting their oil pumps out of time - but they should notice this right away when installing the injection pump. And there is also the issue of load advance versus RPM sensitive advance - but that affects the top end and not starting - and again, just requires proper adjustment. So, I ask - please explain what problem you had in a little more detail.

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dr.sportster

02-19-2005 14:57:26




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to jdemaris, 02-19-2005 09:50:02  
How can he ensure the oil pump gear is properly timed to the cam.He thinks that could be the problem.



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jdemaris

02-19-2005 19:43:14




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to dr.sportster, 02-19-2005 14:57:26  
There are a couple of different ways. Deere has a special tool for it but I never used it. It can be done trial-and-error. You have the engine at TDC of the compression stroke for #1 cylinder. You have the injection pump timing marks lined up (that has the pump in "inject" position for #1 cylinder). Eyeball the pump-drive, and keep in mind you want the oil pump drive end to line up with it once installed. Problem is, the pump rotates as you push it into place because of the helical gears. 1/8 turn, 1/4, I forget for sure. So, you might have to stick the oil pump in, and take it out a few times until you get a feel for how much it rotates out-of-place. Eventually you'll get it in with the drive end in the correct position so the injection pump will line up with it. It sounds messy, but it only takes a couple of minutes. The John Deere tool takes some of the guess work out of it but is NOT necessary. Now, if you want the exact wording from Deere for a 1010 diesel, it is thus: "Make certain that No. 1 piston is at top dead center of its compression stroke . . . Slip oil pump up into its mounting hole inside of block. Install pump so that the drive slot is approx. 45 degrees from parallel with the crankshaft and the drill mark points toward number 4 cylinder (when pump is in place). Secure oil pump assembly in block with attaching screw and lock plates. Install fuel injection pump. Have the timing lines aligned in the injection pump. Mount pump on mounting pad and tighten nuts finger tight. Rotate pump, first in the direction of rotation then in the opposite direction, and again register timing lines to take up all backlash. Tighten mounting nuts securely. Back engine off at least 1/4 turn. Then rotate engine to recheck pump timing . . . repeat procedure until exact timing is obtained. . . . Be sure each injection line is connected to the proper injection pump outlet. No. 1 injection pump outlet is marked at outlet on side of pump. Follow the engine firing order (1-3-4-2) moving counter-clockwise from the no. 1 outlet when viewing the pump from the outlet end. "

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dr.sportster

02-19-2005 05:54:55




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to Roy Suomi, 02-18-2005 22:31:17  
I called him last night and told him what jdemaris said but hes done all that.He is bringing a mechanic from Nashville down to the machine today but I will relay this info to him .thanks guys.



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jdemaris

02-18-2005 06:21:12




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to dr.sportster, 02-17-2005 19:34:57  
When you say it "has a new injector" I don't know if you mean a "new injector" or a new injection pump. As far as the ID tag on the pump housing, it has no effect on the internals of the pump. If it was a fire-job repair, maybe the internals of the old pump were put into a different housing? Granted, the ID tag should have been moved to its proper location for the 2010, but who knows? The pump will only work properly in one direction - internal parts need to be installed for CW or CCW rotation. So, it it runs, that part must be correct. Now, when installing the pump, with #1 piston on TDC of the compression stroke - the timing lines in the injection pump timing window should be visible from the outside. If they are, then the internals seem to be installed properly. So, that leaves you with a good starting and idling machine with no high-end power? Could be a low fuel delivery problem, or a timing advance or load advance problem. If it's the latter, you can try temporarily advancing the pump manually, by loosening the mounting bolts and turning it a bit (just as you would a gas engine distributor). This, of course, will also advance the initial static timing - so do it only for a test to see if the top end works better. Keep in mind that the injection pumps used on 2010s vary. Some have only a timing advance and some use a load advance.

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dr.sportster

02-18-2005 07:54:21




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to jdemaris, 02-18-2005 06:21:12  
THanks jdemaris,Im going to call him tonight and read your advice.It is the pump[I think]because he said it was a 900 something dollar part and he went back and the dealer tested it for him.



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spud in mo

02-19-2005 21:32:31




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to dr.sportster, 02-18-2005 07:54:21  
Do you think maybe that your not getting TDC on the compression stroke? If not the timing wont be right. Just because the #1 piston is up dosnt mean its on the compression stroke. Valves must be shut. As the piston comes up compression will blow your finger off of the spark plug hole. JD, how many chances can you get this wrong?
Three? or is it 50 / 50? Or am I all wet?
My .02s worth
spud in mo

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motorhead460

02-20-2005 18:29:17




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to spud in mo, 02-19-2005 21:32:31  
Wow,if compression blows your finger off the spark plug hole and your trying to time an injector pump something is way wrong dude...lol



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dr.sportster

02-21-2005 06:00:33




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 Re: JD2010 in reply to motorhead460, 02-20-2005 18:29:17  
Spud thanks,but motorhead is right.Your not working on your Harley.{just kiddin]I have to call my freind and tell him what Jdemaris said about the oil pump timing then I think he will be Ok.jdemaris thanks again.This is really helping a hardworking guy.He never got a mechanic down there saturday but he can probably time the pump himself,I hope.



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