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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

questions - for the fluid viscosity knowledgable

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Billy Cathey

02-22-2005 11:51:36




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After running various 20 wts in my old Fiat gearbox with less than stellar results, I finally realized that my manual calls for it to run 30 wt. WOW what a difference in performance! My question is... will running detergent oil as hyd. fluid cause me any adverse problems? Due to a number of minor problems which I am gradually working out I am currently just using 15w40 until my next fluid washout(and finding st8 30 wt). Having had the tractor setting for about 8 months the trans collected a great deal of water which I did not realize until after firing her up "big mistake" so now I am having to use the run awhile and flush method to try and get rid of all the water which is wasting lots of costly fluids any recommendations of a better way to do this would be great! Anyway I know that I should be using 30 wt non det. but am not sure that the det. will not help isolate the water and aide in flushing. Only thing that bothers me is the little blobs that will separate and possibly gum things up. Thanks guys in advance for your knowledge and wisdom it is always appreciated.
And sorry for the windy post.

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jdemaris

02-24-2005 12:06:31




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 Re: questions - for the fluid viscosity knowledga in reply to Billy Cathey, 02-22-2005 11:51:36  
I've read and been told for years that the reason high detergent oil is not suitable for high-pressure hydraulic systems is that the additives cause foaming which results in cavitation. Cavitation helps to wear out close fitting parts prematurely, espcially in hydraulic pumps.



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J.Schwiebert

02-24-2005 15:51:10




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 Re: questions - for the fluid viscosity knowledga in reply to jdemaris, 02-24-2005 12:06:31  
I used to work with a pump engineer and part of there production was for a major major equipment builder and he said they had made tests and I had copies that a detergent oil for spark ignition engines makes a very good hydraulic fluid. You be amazed to see how many operators manuals recommend 10W-30 oil but not the 15W-40 diesel oil. Also if you start with one oil and switch to something else you run a high risk of having trouble. I was working with one of my customers and the reservoir on the machine holds 880 gallon. They have the oil analysised once a month!.

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NC Wayne

02-22-2005 19:13:32




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 Re: questions - for the fluid viscosity knowledga in reply to Billy Cathey, 02-22-2005 11:51:36  
The choice of detergent oil vs non detergent oils in a hydraulic system has been hashed out on here many times in the past. I did a good bit of research on the matter back during the summer when I had a customer change his machine over to a detergent oil in the hydraulic system. Out of everybody I talked to and everything I read I was able to come up with one conclusion....every machine is different and every situation is different so there is no one set answer. I talked to many people and read many articles saying detergent oil was just fine and conversely read some that said do not use detergent oils in hydraulic systems. Through the years I'd always heard that using it on a piece of mobile equipment was simply asking for trouble for the very reasons you mentioned and then some. In a machine that runs 24/7 and stays hot the water tends to stay out of the system, but in a machine that runs and gets hit then cools overnight the detergent oil will draw moisture to the system that doesn't have time to burn out like it does on the machine in constant operation. After my customer changed the oil in his machine (PC 150 Komatsu excavator) it wasn't two months and I was into the hydraulic system working on it. After changine the main pump (nearly $6000) the machine was up and running again only with a different problem that, after several weeks of troubleshooting, and basically finding no outright cause for the problem, fixed itself overnight. Since then that particular problem hasn't come back but there have been several other valves that have gone bad and had to be replaced. He had had the machine for nearly 4 years without any hydraulic system problems before changing the oil out and now 8 months after the change out to detergent oil and eventual change back to a "normal" hydraulic oil I just have gotten everything back to where it's reliable. So my advise is read all you can and ask as many questions as possible and form your own opinion as to what fluid you need for your machine and it's operating conditions. As for me I will never put a detergent oil in any hydraulic system I'm responsible for....unless the Mfg specifically calls for it.....Here is a link with alot of good information about the different kinds of oils out there.

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