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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

john deere 450 price $$$$$$$

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andy1

03-12-2005 14:16:28

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I am looking at buying a jd 450 crawler loader with the backhoe attachment. The man told me that he thought it was around a 1973. I went and looked at it a while back and it is not beat up. The bucket is not all bent up and the teeth look pretty good, all the sheet metal is on and the engine is still yellow and does not have oil and fuel all over it. The track and sprockets appear to be in good shape. He told me that it has dry clutches and the steering is power assisted. He has had it for about 12 years and just piddles with it (said the backhoe is strong). His son bought some land and they are using it right now to move some dirt. I have experience with skidders, knucklebooms, backhoes, bobcats, etc. but have never fooled with a crawler. I hear they can get expensive if you have to work on the tranny-final drive. I need some advise on what I should pay for this machine. I have only basic knowledge and no experience when it comes to dozers so please respond if you know anything at all about a jd 450.

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jdemaris

03-13-2005 07:59:48

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-12-2005 14:16:28

450 series was, and can be a very good machine. The HL-R transmisson is very rugged, but also extremely expensive to fix. Deere had a class-action law suit against it for every HL-R trans. they ever made including all the 450s and older 2010s. I had to update an awful lot of them as part of the Deere law-suit settlement. Problem was they were taking off while in neutral and killed a few people. Dozers generally bring higher prices than loaders - but the hoe certainly adds value. Keep in mind that 450s changed in horsepower and engine size over time. Early 450s have the smallest engines. First engine size got increased, then with later 450Bs, Keystone piston rings and turbochargers were added. Makes a big difference. I've had chances recently to buy running 450 dozers with 6-way blades as low as $4500 and older 450 loaders for $3500. To the converse, a local equipment dealer has an old - small engine - 450 dozer with 6-way and he's asking $16,000! I think he's nuts, but who knows? I often come across 450 loaders with hoes in the $7000 price range in usable condition - but not great. You can easily spend $5000 fixing a HL-R transmission, and another $5000 redoing an undercarriage. John Deere is taking in old 450s, updating them, and reselling them for somewhere around $70,000! It's called their "certified relife" program. From what I've read, there are NO Amercian built crawlers in that weight range anymore. Many state agencies require crawlers under a certain weight, and are supposed to buy U.S. built machines when availble, so Deere started the "relife program."

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andy1

03-13-2005 14:12:35

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to jdemaris, 03-13-2005 07:59:48

Thank you for the insight. If you were looking for a small loader about the size of a 450 what would you look for? Where are you located that you find 450"s for $3000 and up? Thanks again.

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jdemaris

03-13-2005 20:12:18

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-13-2005 14:12:35

I'm in central New York State - but with the Internet, I'm not sure regions matter much anymore in regard to pricing. In answer to what I'd look for in a 450 sized loader? Well . . . a few years ago I'd say a 450B or newer turbocharged Deere. But now? I don't know. Prices are getting so high on parts, new and used, and good used machines are also sky high. I've been in the habit of buying beat-up machines cheap, and then completely going through them. That way, when I'm done, I know exactly what I have. That is getting hard to do with the prices on parts now. So - it all depends on the price versus the condition of the machine. As far as what YOU get - it also depends on what you're willing to put up with. I've come across some great deals on Allis Chalmers crawler-loaders - HD4 for $2500, HD5s $2500-$4500, HD7s around the same. I know where there's a good running HD5 loader with winch for $2000 but it needs some undercarriage work. They are all very rugged machines, have better undercarriage then Deere, but are no where near as nice to operate. All but the HD4 have hand clutches like a Cat and most have noisy Detroit Diesels (excellent engines though). On the plus side, they are MUCH easier, and cheaper to work on then a Deere. I've got an HD4 and a HD6 dozer. Neither have Detroits so they are pretty quiet and smooth. HD4 has a foot clutch and reverser and same size 200 c.i. engine as a Deere 450. HD6 has a 344 c.i. engine and hand-clutch. I also have a Deere 1010 crawler loader which is a underpowered, but otherwise a great little machine. I could of bought an HD4 Allis crawler loader with a winch and a clam-shell Drott front bucket last year for $2500 - ran perfect. I was a fool and passed it up. Big mistake. I was a Deere mechanic for many years and used to think Deere made the absolute best - but I've come to find out that Allis Chalmers and Case made some excellent machines and can often be bought - and fixed - cheaper than a Deere. I'm in the process of putting a Case together right now, and I'm impressed with the way it's built.

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Mike from central ny

03-14-2005 21:00:12

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to jdemaris, 03-13-2005 20:12:18

I'm interested in a 450 loader as well, Would like to know more about them, lift capacity etc. I wonder if theres any info on the jd crawlers dozers 1010, 2010 through the 450's and etc. Very interested in when the 450 first came out, changes from year to year, the turboed later versions interest me the most. Would like a dozer to play with, found that TD14 for real cheap but its not running too big for what I want, that 10' blade would make for some interesting manuevering. Thanks in advance for any info. -Mike

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jdemaris

03-15-2005 05:23:16

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to Mike from central ny, 03-14-2005 21:00:12

The 350 series went through a lot more changes than the 450 series - probably because the 450 held up better and didn't have as many problems. 350 replaced the 1010, and the 450 replaced the 2010. First 450 had the same engine format at the 350 with one extra cylinder - so, if diesel, the 350 has the three-cylinder 152 engine, and the first 450s have the four-cylinder 202 engine.
450 series had two horsepower increases by the time the C series came around. The "C" was the first to have wet steering clutches. Other than the wet clutches and horsepower increases, other changes were minor. When comparing the 350 series to the 450, the 450 has a much more rugged undercarriage, more weight, horsepower/pushing power, high-low-forward hydraulic shuttle (if equipped with the HL-R) insead of just forward and reverse as in the 350 (with optional reverser), and the steering clutches in all the 450s can be removed without pulling the final drives off. That's a big plus. When it comes to crawler loaders specifically, I don't know what Deere was thinking when they built the 1010s and the following 350s. They are very underpowered for loader use. When the late 350Cs or early D series came out, the engine size and horsepower was finally increased - went to a 179 c.i. engine. But . . . I don't recall ever seeing a 350C loader - Deere might have stopped making 350 sized loaders by then. I know our dealership didn't sell any. I worked for Deere dealerships for 30 years. The last place I worked at, we had a Case industrial dealer across the road from us. We used to make fun of the Case stuff - referred to them all as "oil heaters", mainly because of their torque-converter drives. Now that I've gotten to work on several Cases, including my neighbor who's had two 580CK backhoes and two 450 crawlers since new - I'm kind of impressed with them. He's never had a torque-converter problem with any of them - and they are a lot easier to work on then the Deeres.

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srs/mn

03-15-2005 07:56:50

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to jdemaris, 03-15-2005 05:23:16

Yes, JD did make a 350C loader - I traded in a 350 on new one in 1980 or so... I thought it would be a big improvement over the straight 350, but it was, like you say, still very underpowered... I ended up trading it for a 450C, although I did do a lot of work with it first - underpowered or not.
srs/mn

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jdemaris

03-15-2005 08:14:28

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to srs/mn, 03-15-2005 07:56:50

My boss probably just stopped selling them since we had so many complaints about power. It was very hard to power yourself into a pile of dirt or gravel and raise the bucket at the same time - without lugging the engine. And, as far as the transmssion goes, seems first gear was the only one you could use for anything. World of difference with a 450 series.

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andy1

03-12-2005 16:01:56

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jd 450 or cat 931 in reply to andy1, 03-12-2005 14:16:28

How does the jd 450 compare to a cat 931 Year 1979 Serial#- 78U3969. see picture of cat at link.

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andy1

03-12-2005 16:04:55

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Re: jd 450 or cat 931 in reply to andy1, 03-12-2005 16:01:56

Sorry I'm new at this forum thing the last post didn't give photo link, it is Link

thanks.>Link

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seann

03-12-2005 15:49:30

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-12-2005 14:16:28

The asking price partially depends on where you are. In places like the northeast, or in Southern California prices will be considerably higher than in the rural south (for instance). I see Deere 450's of that vintage in good shape (i.e. everything works, decent U/C and minimal leaks) with a backhoe going for ~$10k. The 450 is a very popular machine as is the Deere brand, so from what I've seen they can command a fair price.

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andy1

03-12-2005 15:31:43

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-12-2005 14:16:28

It is just 450. There is no letter after the 450. I called a man to go with me one day next day week and he said he would. The more opinions I get the better.

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srs/mn

03-12-2005 15:21:51

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-12-2005 14:16:28

I just sold a 1978 450C with a JD 4in1 bucket and model 9550 backhoe for $16,000.00. It was in pretty good condition with about 50% undercarrige wear. (I actually think I could have sold it for more than that if I'd actually advertised it for sale). The one you are looking at is probably a "B" model and will probably be worth less... you get what you pay for - take somebody along with you that knows crawlers and backhoes to really look it over... these old machines can be a real buy or, on the other hand, real money pits.
steve in MN

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Dave Brennan

03-12-2005 14:29:45

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-12-2005 14:16:28

I would think a fair price would be about $5,000 to $7,500 for an old machine. Some of the parts are no longer made. Beware of the swing motor on the backhoe as the parts for those are also obselete.

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stressfree

03-12-2005 16:32:12

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to Dave Brennan, 03-12-2005 14:29:45

$9000 starting price,go as high as $10000.its worth it with the backhoe.

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Capt. Zorro

03-13-2005 17:50:38

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to stressfree, 03-12-2005 16:32:12

I'm also looking at a 450C for use on the farm. A local equipment dealer has one that I tried out last week, it runs and steers good. I talked to the previous owner who traded it in on a larger dozer. He said that he had it for 5 yrs. and rebuilt the steering clutches on it, only put about 200 hrs. on it while he owned it. Didn't know where it came from originally. Dealer is wanting $16,500 as it sits or $18,500 with a winch. What should I offer him for it? The oil pressure is good, undercarriage is about 50%, needs a thermostat, cranks with a little shot of either when it's cold.
Thanks.

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andy1

03-13-2005 20:52:18

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to Capt. Zorro, 03-13-2005 17:50:38

I can tell you that over the past few weeks of intense research I have learned a lot. I have not bought yet and after reading 100's of pages of posts I'm scared. All of my research tells me that is too much but I am by no means an expert or experienced at this. I have talked to the guy some more who owns the 450 (no letters after 450 - I will get serial and maybe pictures soon) that I am looking at. It looks really good and a backhoe comes with. I am going to take a man with me who own's and operates dozers for a living to test drive this one. The price is down to 12k but I am still working on that. I can't spend any more than 12k but look at this site if you can spend more than 12k.

Link

I reckon equipment dealers are kinda like car dealers - they are making money and the only one who knows how much they make off your purchase is them, no matter what they might tell you. I don't know if I am helping you any or not but there are some sharp cookies that read and respond to these forums.

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Capt. Zorro

03-14-2005 07:39:11

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-13-2005 20:52:18

Yea, I talked to Chuck last week about the dozers. The Dresser has already sold, the John Deere with the 4 in 1 bucket is in Johnson City. He said that he'll try to get it down here for me to look at. It may be more practical for what I'm wanting to do, clear out dead pine trees. I'm like you, going to have my Uncle who's a heavy equipment owner operator go by and look at them before I spend my hard borrowed money...
Thanks.

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andy1

03-14-2005 07:51:47

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to Capt. Zorro, 03-14-2005 07:39:11

Are you close to johnson city? I live in limestone - a little community about 25 min. from johnson city.

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Capt. Zorro

03-14-2005 11:34:25

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Re: john deere 450 price $$$$$$$ in reply to andy1, 03-14-2005 07:51:47

I'm down in Knoxville. Originally from Sevierville, moved down here when I got back from Vietnam in '71.

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