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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Price of diesel fuel- what gives?

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Rich from Pa.

03-30-2005 17:32:10




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Back in the early '70's diesel fuel and heating oil were half the price of gasoline. Why isnt it half the price now? Was 35cents and gasoline was 65-70 cents a gallon. Why is this? It is still processed the same way basicly, so are we getting the shaft or what ? As for me, I am installing a wood fueled boiler to my hydronic baseboard system and will be heating without the $#@*&$ fuel oil. I have lots of firewood for two years and more where that came from !!Lord willing, that my health stays good enough to allow me the privelidge of working outdoors. I would rather do that on weekends or evenings than sit inside writing checks to the oil co's.The co I work for gives us a lousy 3 % raise and stuff goes up 20 percent! Anybody else feel this way?

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woodsman

04-02-2005 05:26:54




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
Yeah, darn those enviromentalists, we'd be getting everything cheaper if we could just go back to dumping all our garbage in the oceans, not worry about oil spills, put the nuclear waste in gravel pits for our grandchildren, and make the air black with coal smoke like it used to be around Pittsburg at the turn of the century. Maybe you fellas wouldn't mind having toxic waste in your backyards, that would keep the cost of waste disposal down and result in cheaper products. Oh yes the Grand Canyon is HUGE! imagine how much coal tar, and junk cars could be put in there!
Come on guys, would you really sit down in front of your grandkids and try to argue that its the enviromentalists fault, stop acting like a bunch of hicks.

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Doug in Wash

04-01-2005 21:03:35




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
Gas and Diesel are both a bargin! in 1965 i purchased a new home for 15,500. and a new car for 2,000. My wages were 2.25 an hour gas was 29.9 cents per gallon. That was about 13% of my hourly wage. Today the price of gas was 2.17 per gallon. about 10% of the average wage of 20.00 an hour in our area. That 15,500 house now sells for about 195,000. and the 2,000. car is about 22,000. Every indian casino in the state is full 7 days a week, and bottled water business is worth 12 billion dollars a year at a dollar a quart. I buy diesel every week for my dozer and truck at 2.49 a gallon. I wish it were still .20 cents but that aint going to happen!!
Let some of those moths out of your wallets!!!

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dsldr

04-03-2005 17:52:12




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Doug in Wash, 04-01-2005 21:03:35  
Wouldn't mind 2.50 a gallon if we could get $20.00 an hour here.



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Mike w J

04-01-2005 11:46:33




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
road deisel was cheaper then gas by quite a bit until the started taxing by BTU then that really narrowed the gap



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Coldrion

04-01-2005 08:35:20




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
You aint seen nothin yet! Wait till Sept when the cost of fuel hits the consumer in higher cost of consumer goods. The Fed will have to adjust their numbers again 2 speed things back up. The environmentalists have shut down industry in this country with Power Plant emission rules and now they are clearing the highways.



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cannonball

04-03-2005 08:01:58




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Coldrion, 04-01-2005 08:35:20  
why don't you try to put blame where it belongs..just drive down road and see how many cars you see on the road..then see how many pickups and suv's you see running 80 mph.. i just got back fron a trip from tx to il, my car averaged over 30 mph..oh yes a buick park av..the public has stepped up to suv and trucks that drink fuel and then we cry..oh yes just look at oil companys profits...ceo's drawing 50 to 100 million a year..they take oil that is produced here (usa) that they have old contracts on and ship the gasoline to other countries..people say the president, house and senate can not do anything, would you bite the hand that got you elected....GREED WILL DESTORY THE USA.... have nice day may god bless

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Ken in Idaho

04-01-2005 08:43:37




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Coldrion, 04-01-2005 08:35:20  
I wonder if those envionmental fellers are the same ones that helped reintroduce those wonderful wolves out here in the west?



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Coldiron

04-01-2005 12:42:37




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Ken in Idaho , 04-01-2005 08:43:37  
Same one`s and I have heard them howl here in Bonner County. Wish they would put them in their own back yards.



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Ken in Idaho

04-01-2005 19:53:47




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Coldiron, 04-01-2005 12:42:37  

We don't have them quite as close to us down here on the Snake River, but I know they are just north of us in the sawtooth mountains.I just get mad thinking about it. Ken



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Ken in Idaho

04-01-2005 08:31:56




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
I have a friend who is a truck driver, a few months ago he told me he had been hauling parts from a oil refinery down to the gulf in Texas. He said they had shut the refinery down because they couldn't meet the new air quality standards, so they were dismantling them, loading them on ships and shipping them to Venezuela and putting them back together. I was hoping that was't true, mabey it is?



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Gary in TX

03-31-2005 23:09:58




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
Its the big guys and the enviromentalist(key word is mental) that in my opinion are screwing things up. Everything seems to go up buy wages. There is for sure something wrong with the current trend. I always thought as time went on things were supposed to get better, boy was I wrong. I believe sometimes it would be better too live elsewhere. I'm thinking of buying a wagon and a team of mules! .

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Logan in S.E. Tex.

03-31-2005 21:31:12




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
I work for one of the major oil companies as a process operator, that is I control the process that makes gasoline and diesel. The biggest reason in price increase is more demand than supply. The price of crude is but a small part of the picture. The refining capacity of the nation is maxed out, running at 95-98% most of the time. There has been no new refineries built in over 25 years, thanks to the enviromentalists, who have also demanded and achieved tighter emmision regulations creating the need for 20-30+ different blends of gas and cleaner burning diesel. You can have cheap fuel or clean air but not both at the same time with fossile fuel. Bio-diesel is an option that should be explored and capitalized on but the infra-structure for it will have to be paid for somehow??? Building more refineries AND drilling in Alaska and the lower 48 will help. Say whay you will about big oil, but when big oil money flows it flows out through all levels of business....

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dsldr

04-03-2005 17:57:44




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Logan in S.E. Tex., 03-31-2005 21:31:12  
It doesn't help that our government is run by those who profit the most from big oil. Alternatives are slow to develop because our illustrious politicians do not have any ventures in other energy prospects. The more oil we buy, the more money they make.



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Matt in MA

04-04-2005 19:40:23




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to dsldr, 04-03-2005 17:57:44  
well, since we"re getting political, let"s face it: only part of the price of oil is paid for in money, part of it is seen in things like this...
Link

"Soldier killed in Iraq receives Medal of Honor
His son accepts highest honor from President Bush"

We"ve got some great men bearing the brunt of a national energy policy that keeps us dependent on the middle east.

Matt

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cannonball

04-03-2005 08:10:24




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Logan in S.E. Tex., 03-31-2005 21:31:12  
then why is there no shortage?????.....all is oil company bull..if you ever think that the oil companies don't have any say so in the price of oil then i do have some ocean front property to sell you just look at the oversea's profits....the world is full of blind...we will all see in the after life.....may god bless



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RN

03-31-2005 19:15:20




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
Coal burning furnaces converted to fuel oil, jet fuel is close to kerosene and diesel fuel- increased air travel=more jet fuel use. 70s light oil surplus after refining for gas= lower price as more supply than demand. Now demand greater than supply of clean low sulfur diesel after refining for gasoline.



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Charlie

03-31-2005 06:22:48




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
But as someone else mentioned, I"d still like to know why diesel has gone from below the price of gasoline to above the price, at least here in the northeast. I thought that refining diesel was easier. Is it the tax allocation that has shifted?



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kyhayman

04-03-2005 20:00:14




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Charlie, 03-31-2005 06:22:48  
Not any easier or harder to get diesel than gasoline. A barrel of oil contains both plus other stuff. Different oils have different ratios of stuff but all come out in the cracking tower. Fractional distillage breaks the given barrel of oil down into its components. For years, we refined crude oil for the gasoline and had to deal with the surplus distillates (fuel oil, diesel, kerosene). My grandmother even used a gasoline steam iron. Gasoline was the magic fuel, distillate fuel was smelly, hard to use, and generally not desired except for heating oil. One reason it is so common in the Northeast is that it was cheap. With 'discovery' that oil was limited and the rapid icrease in price back in the 70's we began a shift to the more energy dense distillate fuel. Only problem, we are still using a scarce and high demand motor fuel for heating and power generation. Even better would be to replace distillate fuels with renewable fuels.

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Dale(MO)

03-31-2005 04:03:11




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
Rich, I know what you mean. I drive a dumptruck for a living, hauling asphalt (mostly on state highways). Fuel in my area is up 40%, but we got a 5% increase in pay (only on tonnage rates, no increase by the hour). I paid $2.09/gal. last night, but I'm sure it will be higher soon.

Unfortunately, as my grandpa said years ago, people will put up with anything if it is spoon-fed to them slowly enough. Until people just stop driving and buying fuel, there's no end in sight.

Maybe the breadline ain't so bad! LOL

Dale

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MSM

03-31-2005 04:02:38




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
You know all of our outsourced jobs in China,and all the made in China stuff we Americans buy. Well the Chinese workers have some money in their pockets now and the are buying vehicles,by the millions.They need gas and diesel fuel and are importing crude oil in record amounts.



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krb

03-31-2005 06:00:51




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to MSM, 03-31-2005 04:02:38  
I have a neighbor who was over in China on a buisness trip, and he said the same thing, people over there are starting to get hold of some money. They are buying cars and starting to discover there's more to eat than rice. they are going to be a major consumers in the world food supply. He said "you better get some food stored up, because when the Chinese people discover all the good things there are to eat out there they will buy em all up." He said he was in what they call a small city in north China, only 2 million people.

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Pete/ME

03-31-2005 03:19:34




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
Sure, our berobed brethern of the desert sands have raised the price of crude, but how much more have the oil companies tacked on? And what a coinkydink...look who's running the country. The prez and the whole cabinet are big oil people. Has there been one mention of oil prices from the Whitehouse? Remember the "windfall profits tax"? No, the answer is to for those same companies to dig up more oil here, and do you think that will lower the price? I'd really like to know more about what "distillate" is. Many of us have "All Fuel" machines, and it was supposed to be cheap, right? So could we go back to using the stuff?

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old

03-30-2005 20:59:28




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
More diesel cars and trucks on the road so the price has gone up



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woodsman

03-30-2005 19:23:18




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Rich from Pa., 03-30-2005 17:32:10  
Sorry bud, but as one of the worlds largest users of gas and diesel, as well as the worlds largest producer of of gas guzzeling road yachts, the Americans have put greater demand on the worlds fossil fuel resources and when demand increases, the prices go up. I know for a fact that there are still untapped resources in the lower 48 states that the oil companies are not useing as I have property that has mineral rights leased and have never received a penny as the oil company wants to wait until they can get top dollar, better to go and screw up Alaska, heck who's going to see it anyway, just natives and Canadians. And we know how the US has dealt with the natives in the past. Just be glad you are'nt paying close to $4.00 a gallon like we are in Canada. Thanks George W. for fixing things up, oh, by the way how much is he and his friends making on fuel these days. Promote the use of bio-fuel if you want a change.
Just my opinion since this has become a political forum.

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Len AZ

04-07-2005 23:52:19




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 03-30-2005 19:23:18  
There is a lot of insight in this thread.

Ironically, as some of us are accusing the environmentalists of screwing things up for the fuel industry and elevating prices, it may be these same people who lead us to a solution.

Yes, greed, supply and demand, and stricter EPA rules are all contributing to higher prices but we've all known for a long time that the fossil fuel route is not sustainable. Increasing our supplies to meet demand will only accelerate the "expiration date" of the oil based energy system. Since we will HAVE to face the music sometime, we may as well start soon and get our feet in the renewable energy doors.

The U.S. needs to do this NOW because other countries are already developing these technologies and we cannot afford to lag very far behind them.

I won't be so bold as to say that in a decade we can get off of fossil fuels but we can apply alternative fuels in places where they are feasible and reduce our demand on oil. We'll still use gas for cars for a long time but we can buy that time by transitioning to different technologies for power generation and heating if we do it soon.

If we were spending money on alternative fuels development instead of blowing away $1 billion each week in Iraq, we could be well on our way to a more sound energy policy.

And these damned environmentalists? They might be the ONLY people that push our butts into gear, getting started what we should have been doing already: Developing alternative energy. It MUST happen, why are we fighting it?

Re: Drilling in Alaska - We should NOT do it! Sure, we want the oil but it will be far more valuable to us if we wait a couple decades until the rest of the world has run out. Our military runs on oil and even as somewhat of a pacifist, I still believe that strategically, we should be the last ones with it.

Re: environmentalism - I recently moved from the big city to a rural town and now enjoy a much cleaner environment. I can breathe the air without having to chew it first. For once I am beginning to appreciate the intentions of the environmentalists. There is a price to be paid for cleaner places to live and right now we're paying it. But I wouldn't trade it either because I know that we will use these higher prices as a reason to FINALLY develop feasible alternatives. It sucks that we have to do it but there's no other way unless we want to spend the rest of our lives with our short & curlies in the firm grasp of the oil industry.

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Robert in W. Mi.

04-02-2005 08:50:21




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 03-30-2005 19:23:18  
Have you ever been to Alaska????? ?? Have you ever been to ANWAR????? How about up on the North Slope?????

I've been to all of the above, and every place you go there that an oil company has been it's very clean. The caribou ect.. are still there, and even sleep in the shade of the pipe line!!

The gravel/rock pitts they took gravel or rock out of have been leveled off, and look natural again. There's no trash or anything else laying around...

BTW, i lived in Alaska for 25 years, but i've not ever had anything to do with the oil companys, so don't think i'm on there payroll.

Robert

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woodsman

04-03-2005 19:38:00




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 04-02-2005 08:50:21  
Oh yes Robert who spent 25 years in Alaska in your basement. Go to www.arcticwildlife.org/dirty4summary.htm
Read the article then click on Oil Spill History.
I don't have to be there to know it happened, There's a moon but I have'nt been there.



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woodsman

04-03-2005 19:27:49




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 04-02-2005 08:50:21  
Have you ever heard of the Exxon Valdez????? ??
Do you know what BP Amoco has done in Prudhoe Bay, where Prudhoe Bay is (North Slope), what they have done, how many times they have done it, and how much they have paid? Don't you dare tell me that because you did'nt see it, it did'nt happen! It happens all the time, type a search in for " the dirty four oil companies".



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Robert In W. Mi.

04-04-2005 15:35:40




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 04-03-2005 19:27:49  
I never said they didn't have an spill. BUT, they clean up and restore the land after. Nothing is perfect, but i think it's worth takeing a chance as long at they use preventive measures, and clean things up if something like that happens.

Go and look for your self, if it's as bad as YOU claim, you should be able see damage to the land, and dead and dieing animials all over the place!!! I'll bet you, you won't find even one caused by an oil spill!!

I've been in Prince William Sound probable a hundred times, includeing durning the spill. I hunted and camped in the area extensively!! If you had seen what it was like before and after the spill, maybe you'd know what your talking about. I tend to prefer "first hand knowledge", not reading about it later.

I'm certainly NOT for oil spills, but like a long time boilogist told me in private. The sound was so over populated with PROTECTED small animials that they were eating them selves out of house and home, after the spill they are haveing a come back. Bet you didn't know anything about that though. (it's not news!!) If you lived there, you'd see it's "nothing" like you think it is.

I remeber the day after the spill, a buddy of mine flew several news guys around in a chopper for several hours looking for something (oil covered ducks???) bad enough to make the evening news!! He said, money was no object to them, just find us a good photo opp...

Go there, see for your self!!

Robert

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woodsman

04-09-2005 10:56:03




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to Robert In W. Mi., 04-04-2005 15:35:40  
You're an idiot.



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cannonball

04-04-2005 06:19:40




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 04-03-2005 19:27:49  
how many people was killed????? ? we place such a high valve on animal life but not human ....may god bless



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woodsman

04-04-2005 10:11:13




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to cannonball, 04-04-2005 06:19:40  
40 deaths due to accidents and spills in the last ten years.



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woodsman

04-05-2005 09:02:49




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 04-04-2005 10:11:13  
Jeez. Read the whole thread or go to the link I gave to Robert.



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cannonball

04-05-2005 07:17:58




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 04-04-2005 10:11:13  
from the Exxon Valdez ..... ..i don't think so



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Jackson Knight

03-31-2005 15:50:51




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 03-30-2005 19:23:18  
Yes I agree we should be making fuel from grains. The money for sending the space shuttle into space could go along ways in building plants to produce it.I guess that would make sence so the goverment would not like that idea.Its to bad we can only vote for certain people on the voting ballot.We'll never will be able to clean house with this system we have.To me its a losing battle.I have a neigbor who is a GM retirie(lots of them here in MI)would complain about gas prices(I work for a gas company a driver of gas truck He made alot more money then I will ever make in a year) I asked him back but its ok for auto's price to rise but not the gas price. He's never complained to me again.But I don't like the prices either.

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Big C

03-31-2005 08:12:34




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 03-30-2005 19:23:18  
Yeah...I checked on the Biodiesel the other day and it was more expensive than regualar diesel. U.S. is not paying attention to one of its greatest resources...The American Farmer. Instead of paying them not to produce crops they should have been using it and stockpiling methanol and Biodiesel. The big oil companies were not going to let that happen they do everything they can to discourage alternative power sources.

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JimInOz

03-30-2005 20:26:44




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to woodsman, 03-30-2005 19:23:18  
Australians are paying $1.10 to $1.15 + per LITRE in the cities,more in regional areas.It's having an effect on business,although not much is said..... see what it's like in 6 months.....



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rick roberts

03-31-2005 12:58:55




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to JimInOz, 03-30-2005 20:26:44  
Being fron texas, and having a grandfather that drilled and found a lot of crude, I get a bit of info. I have recently been informed that the price of diesel is going up mainly for one reason alone. The EPA rules that were set years ago have recenly gone into effect that requires a reduction in the paticulate matter consentrations from a 100 parts per million, to a new amount that shall not exceed 15 parts per million at the pump. It seems that in order to achieve that, the refineries have to produce at a rate of 10 PPM to account for contamination in pipelines, tanks , etc. NOW, it doesn't cost much more to refine until you get below about 30 PPM purity ,at which point the cost of refining takes a jump. So much of a jump it seems that three refineries in the continental US are discontinuing the production of diesel fuels, rather than tool up for the extra processes. This also comes at a time when CITGO, which is owened by the Venezuelans, has anounced their desire to sell the 5 refineries here that they own. Seems they are building a pipeline to the pacific thru columbia in order to tap the chinese market and abandon the US due to political reasons ( Head of venezuela is a great friend of castro ). All of this I wish I new BEFORE I bought that new duramax that only gets about 15 mpg!! Hope this was informative rick

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thehickdaddy

04-01-2005 08:27:34




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 Re: Price of diesel fuel- what gives? in reply to rick roberts, 03-31-2005 12:58:55  
yup rick, you are right on from what i know. alot of the automotive and fuel industry is related directly to emisions and the related requirement for ultra low emisions from internal combustion engines. thehickdaddy, an employee of gm



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