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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case 450 Fuel Injector Question

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John Van Valken

04-19-2005 16:44:04




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I'm in the process of rebuilding the 188 Diesel engine in my 1968 Case 450 Track Loader. I pulled the old injectors and decided to replace them since they looked pretty carboned up at the tips.

I found a place who had injectors in stock but upon inspection I find that they are not the same Part Number as mine. Here is what I've got...

The original injectors are Stanadyne Part Number 19993. The manual tells me that this injector crosses to Case P/N A51234. The injector specs call for a "sac hole len" of 0.095" and an opening pressure of 3150-3250 PSI.

The new (rebuilt actually) injectors are Stanadyne Part Number 18054 which was apparently used on the earlier 188 engines. The manual specs for this injector call for a "sac hole len" of 0.195" and an opening pressure of 2750-2850 PSI.

Can I use the 18054 injectors in my application? Would my injector pump need to be re-calibrated in order to use them? What is the "sac hole"?

I noticed on one of the rebuilt injectors that the lock-nut was cracked and so I'm going to have to send it back anyway or wait for a replacement.

The rebuilt injectors otherwise appear to be in good shape. I understand that the pencil injectors can't really be rebuilt per se but what I am looking for is a set of injectors that are known good, cleaned up and properly set up.

Any ideas or thoughts are most welcome.

Thanks,
John
1968 Case 450

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jdemaris

04-19-2005 20:39:01




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 Re: Case 450 Fuel Injector Question in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 04-19-2005 16:44:04  
In my opinion, you're throwing your money away on so-called "rebuilt" pencil injectors. If you don't have a tester on hand, you don't know if what you are getting is any better than what you already have. As you've already alluded to, there is no good way to rebuild pencil injectors since major wear items are not replacable. I just had a bad experience with brand-new injectors. I bought eight new Stanadyne injectors for my Ford IH powered truck. Pulled the old injectors out, and started installing the new ones, testing them beforehand. Three out of the eight new injectors were bad. Anyway, back to your question. Main thing is you want your injectors even, i.e. & e.g. same opening pressure, same spray angle and orifice size. Sac hole length is not going to be a critical issue. You want all four cylinders getting the same amount of fuel, at the same time, and atomized the same way - so one cyinder won't be producing more or less power than the others. Gets a little more confusing when you are mixing brand new injectors with used ones - that because new injectors usually take a drop in opening pressure once they get used a while. So, sometimes it's okay to install new injectors that are set a little higher than used ones. With your Stanadyne/Roosamaster injectors - 19993 or 20348 have a 160 degree spray angle, .011" orifice size, and used opening pressure of 2950-3050 PSI. 18054 or 17206 have a spray angle of 160 degress, .011" orifice size, and used opening pressure of 2550-2650 PSI. I can't think of any reason why you can't use the older injectors as long as you install them as a set. They have no affect on fuel delivery amount - but they do slightly affect cold starting, and overall efficiency. Higher pressure equals finer atomization of fuel - and subsequently a better running engine. The difference is small, but the injectors your engine are supposed to have open at a higher pressure - at least with factory settings. I have no idea what they are set at now. I don't know if I gave you any useful answers or not. If it was my engine - I'd wouldn't use "rebuilt" injectors. Heck, you can buy a brand-new injector tester for $100 - and test, clean, and set your own injectors for probably less money than you paid for the "rebuilts." I just went through this with a Case 207D in my 580CK. I found a place selling "rebuilt" injectors for $25 each. I called him up and quizzed him a bit about what he does in the rebuilding process. After a short conversation, I opted to buy new ones. Case dealer charged $81 apiece and the Stanadyne/Roosmaster dealer wanted $102 apiece. Either way, a lot more than I wanted to spend - but - I bought them from Case. I know, if I bought the "rebuilts", it would just cause problems later.

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dsldr

04-22-2005 12:58:53




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 Re: Case 450 Fuel Injector Question in reply to jdemaris, 04-19-2005 20:39:01  
Where can you get a brand new injector tester for $100? I just spent $140 dollars for four of the adapters alone for an OTC "pop tester". I shudder to think what a new tester costs. Thanks.



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jdemaris

04-22-2005 14:23:48




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 Re: Case 450 Fuel Injector Question in reply to dsldr, 04-22-2005 12:58:53  
You shudder to think? I just told you the price. As I said, brand new tester with two adaptors - $100, any day of the week. I had to search for quite awhile. The OTCs are way overpriced, as is most specialty stuff made in the US. And Ebay - forget it - you don't find many deals there anymore. I've been thinking of buying a bunch more. Works great - only slight downside is the gauge is in KPA so if you want PSI, convert with math. Most test specs give both scales anyway. Link has the testers.

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John Van Valkenburgh

04-20-2005 12:09:52




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 Re: Case 450 Fuel Injector Question in reply to jdemaris, 04-19-2005 20:39:01  
I appreciate the frankness of your response. I have to agree with you that using so called "rebuilt" or "reconditioned" is a gamble at best. I had hoped that the rebuilder would at least clean up the tips and pressure test the units to insure that they are fully functional. I know my old injectors were putting out at least some fuel but from the amount of carbon on the tips I suspect they would not be as good as "tested" used units.

That having been said, I spoke with a service manager at the Case dealer who pretty much echoed your statements. He does have a tester and will test my old injectors for a minimal charge. He suggested that I clean them up with a brass brush to avoid scratching up the tips.

I've decided to go ahead and return the rebuilt injectors I just got and see if I can clean up the ones I've already got. At the worst I may have to buy one or two replacements but even then that is less than the cost of a set of rebuilts. They were something like $48 each.

Again, I appreciate your advice. I'm generally pretty good with a wrench but I don't pretend to know much about diesel injection systems.

Best Regards,
John
1968 Case 450

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dsldr

04-23-2005 17:14:37




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 Re: Case 450 Fuel Injector Question in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 04-20-2005 12:09:52  
I guess I just learn the hard way. If I need shop equipment in the future, I will come here first.



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