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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

440 icd crank case oil problem???????

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scott in wa.

04-20-2005 14:13:37




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Hello, I have a 440 icd I noticed that there is oil coming out of the dip stick oil hole. Get worse with rpm. Seems to want to shoot out, even with dip stick in place. Any ideas??? Maybe blower seal to block is leaking????? ?? What do you think? Thanks Scott in wa.




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NC Wayne

04-21-2005 19:29:32




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 Re: 440 icd crank case oil problem??????? in reply to scott in wa., 04-20-2005 14:13:37  
The way the old two stroke Detroits are designed when the piston is on the up stroke the oil control rings are the only thing seperating the intake chamber from the crankcase. Since the intake chamber is constantly under pressure supplied by the blower that pressure will be allowed into the crankcase if one or more of the rings is worn out or damaged in some way. Like you say you'd be getting the pressure in the crankcase but you wouldn't show any loss of power since the actual compression rings aren't effected by this. The fact that it gets worse when the RPM increases just adds to this since the damaged rings are gonna be in the right position more times than they are at a lower RPM and because the intake pressure is gonna rise due to the blower pumping more air into the chamber. Hope this helps.

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hector gemme

04-21-2005 16:03:47




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 Re: 440 icd crank case oil problem??????? in reply to scott in wa., 04-20-2005 14:13:37  
HI I think you need motor job ,ring brook a friend of mine had same problem,detroit 253. HECTOR



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ajk

04-21-2005 12:54:53




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 Re: 440 icd crank case oil problem??????? in reply to scott in wa., 04-20-2005 14:13:37  
Make sure that the crankcase breather is clean and any pipe leading off it is not blocked.
AJ



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scott in wa.

04-20-2005 18:39:27




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 is it the blower causing this??? in reply to scott in wa., 04-20-2005 14:13:37  
help



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BKhahler

04-20-2005 19:42:08




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 Re: is it the blower causing this??? in reply to scott in wa., 04-20-2005 18:39:27  
Scott,

I'm not a diesel expert but it sure sounds like you have excessive blow by. This happens when the piston rings are worn to the point where the compression created by the piston as its move towards top dead center escapes past the rings down into the crank case where the oil is. When this happens the pressure created in the crank case tries to escape any way it can, the easiest of which is through the dipstick tube opening.

You're most likely in for an engine rebuild.

Sorry for the bad news.

Brad

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scott in wa.

04-21-2005 06:16:46




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 Re: is it the blower causing this??? in reply to BKhahler, 04-20-2005 19:42:08  
Wouldn't I notice some kind of loss of power or less power be developed by the engine???
Lots of smoke or something???
The engine runs great with loads of power clean exhaust.
Black only when under a heavy load...
What do you think????

But I do notice that there is no blow by coming out of the valve cover vent cap any more.

Maybe it’s plugged up?????



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scott in wa.

04-22-2005 06:56:14




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 FIXED??? new problem?? in reply to scott in wa., 04-21-2005 06:16:46  
I changed the oil, blew out the crank case breather, and cleaned the breather on the valve cover.
Added some marvel mystery oil to it.

No more oil out the dip stick.
hummmmm m. Still not sure what’s going on.
But I do notice
Condensation or a bit more than that dripping from the breather ontop of the valve cover.
Almost like a slight amount of steam.
The oil in the crank case was clean not milky, just oily black.
Ran it an hour at 190 deg temp,

What do you think?

Scott

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John Van Valkenburgh

04-22-2005 16:23:26




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 Re: FIXED??? new problem?? in reply to scott in wa., 04-22-2005 06:56:14  
Scott,

I'd run it and keep an eye on the engine temp, oil pressure, engine oil usage and coolant level. There will always be some crankcase pressure and if the breather was plugged its going to come out somewhere else.

Some condensation at the breather is normal, especially this time of year with temps going up and down a lot. The "steam" you see might be steam or it might be atomized oil particles from blowby. How much is normal is hard to say but blowby in and of itself is not going to damage anything. Running low on oil, coolant or overheating will. Excessive blowby will tend to pollute the engine oil a bit more quickly so keep up with the oil changes.

You asked if having excessive blowby would cause smoke or reduced engine performance. Its not likely to cause smoke in the exhaust. Technically the compression would be down a bit and this would reduce HP but perhaps not so much that you would notice.

A gradual increase in blowby over time is normal engine wear. A sudden increase in blowby (with no other obvious causes like a clogged breather) would tend to indicate that something has broken (a cracked piston or broken ring). In the case of a sudden increase in blowby, an engine tear-down in probably in order before something comes apart.

I hope this helps,
John
1968 Case 450

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scott in wa.

04-23-2005 14:21:23




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 Re: FIXED??? new problem?? in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 04-22-2005 16:23:26  

yes it does help.

I will keep an eye on it...
thanks



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