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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case 188D rebuild?

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Bill (IN)

05-13-2005 07:40:44




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I have a 1972 Case track loader with a 188 Diesel engine. I have owned it for about 2 years. The engine was tired when I bought it, but it worked for the light work that I used it for. It requires ether to start (even restarts). Uses oil and smokes a lot. I let a friend use it to pull logs and it developed a knock in the engine. It sounds like a knock in the top end, but I really am not sure what it is. It still has good oil pressure. My question is, to what degree should I rebuild it? I know I need to find out what the knock is, but could I just put rings in it? Would sleeves, rings, & bearings be the way to go? Does the injection pump need to be rebuilt? I have rebuilt a few gassers, but never a diesel.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Bill

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David in SC

05-14-2005 03:03:17




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 Re: Case 188D rebuild? in reply to Bill (IN), 05-13-2005 07:40:44  
Bill,
If you have built a few gassers then you are way ahead of me and I just did an in-frame on my 207D that had all the same symptoms minus the knock. But, I do have a hole in the block where #1 took a trip at some point in the past. First, I would recommend buying a manual. Best money I ever spent. Costly, but well worth it and I think you may be able to get it on CD now. Look on eBay. Very straightforward job I thought. I made the mistake of leaving both manifolds and water pump attached and wound up with a real heavy chunk trying to remove head myself. Don"t set head down unless you have shims under it as the injector tips stick out below the head surface. Paint matchmarks on front pulley that correspond to TDC on the flywheel. Much less aggravating than peering through the little window on a sunny day with a flashlight when trying to set valves. I replaced sleeves, pistons, rings, rod bearings, wrist pins, gaskets, and had basic valve job done all for about $800. Got rid of all my smoke and steam, but I really needed to do a total OH as my crank needs work. Number 1 has excessive clearance and minor scarring, I suppose it may have something to do with the hole in the block, he he. But, it was running without knock before and I set a budget before I began. Understand that my machine has seen better days, the U/C is measured in negative percents as per my Case industrial dealer. So, I did the bare necessities to get me running.
Results so far have been OK, it runs and no longer blows steam. Much more power. Still needs just a hint of ether when temp is under 70. May be because valves are recessed more than spec and injector pump probably needs attention. I"ll hopefully let that be someone else"s job as I am about done with my basement and then I think I will pawn this off on some other motivated individual.
Good luck whichever route you take.

David in SC

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jdemaris

05-13-2005 20:18:36




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 Re: Case 188D rebuild? in reply to Bill (IN), 05-13-2005 07:40:44  
The rings rarely get a chance to wear out before they are either broken/shattered by ether, or the piston ring grooves are worn too wide, the sleeves scored, etc. In regard to the injection pump, there are several things that get worn and malfunction after X amount of engine hours. In many machines, the timing advance is not working properly, but tends to go unnoticed. The engine will still start and run, but not as good as it should - just like a gas engine runs when the ignition advance (centrifugal and/or vacuum) is not working. Lack of advance will tend to make the engine smoke and break up at high speed. Also, the plastic governor weight retainer ring will always fail at some point - and that seems to go with age rather than engine hours. I worked as a pump rebuilder for a Deere dealership (same pumps as your Case). If it was my engine, I would do the following - (actually I just did - I replaced a blown-up 188D in my 580CK backhoe with a 207D). Pull the timing window off the side of the pump and look for debris. The debris should look like little mouse turds. If you find any, the ring is shattered. If not - leave the pump alone until you get the engine running. Then, install a plastic timing window - or - if available, hook up a timing light to an injector line by using a pulse-pickup adapter. The plastic timing window is a Roosamaster service tool, available from any good injection pump shop, a Deere dealer, a Case dealer, Allis Chalmers, Ford, etc. They all used Roosamaster/Stanadyne pumps. If you want to buy one, it should cost $10-$15. You install it temporarily in place of the steel window, run the engine to full RPM, and observe the advance movment. Full advance, as I recall is about 3 pump degrees the equals 6 degreese advance before top dead center.

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John Van Valkenburgh

05-13-2005 17:45:58




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 Re: Case 188D rebuild? in reply to Bill (IN), 05-13-2005 07:40:44  
I'm told that 188's have a tendency to throw the #3 rod when they finally go. Otherwise it's a pretty good little engine.

I'm rebuilding mine at the moment. The engine "kit" comes with new pistons, sleeves, rings, wrist pins, ALL the gaskets including a head gasket and rod bearings. You will have to pull your oil pan first and determine if the crank is okay and if it is, what con rod bearing size you need.

Did your engine hold good oil pressure when idleing hot? If not you should consider pulling the engine and putting in new main bearings.

You will also need to pull the head and see what diamenter sleeves you have (there were two sizes). I'd also recommend that you not assume that this is the original engine that came with the machine. For example my 450 is a 1968 model but the engine obviously came out of a backhoe, probably an early 70's model. Nothing wrong with that as its done all the time, but you can't always assume you will have an engine made in 1972.

I had a broken top compression ring in the #2 cylinder and that was causing lots of blowby. I was lucky enough to do the rebuild and find the crank and everything else in excellent condition. This allows me to use an "in-frame" kit that rebuilds everything except that the main bearings are not replaced. I had good hot oil pressure and so I'm not concerned about that.

As engines go the 188 Diesel has no surprises. As a matter of fact its more simple than a gas burner in my opinion as there is no ignition system timing to worry about. The engine is a standard inline 4 cylinder with overhead valves and pushrods. Valve clearance is adjusted by screws on the rocker arms just like most older cars.

Best of luck and let us know if you have any questions.

John
1968 Case 450

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BKahler

05-13-2005 13:26:23




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 Re: Case 188D rebuild? in reply to Bill (IN), 05-13-2005 07:40:44  
Bill,

I'm smack in the middle of a rebuild on a 188 that was running exactly like yours. What we hoped was going to be just a hole in the top of a piston turned out to be a spun rod bearing. It had been run long enough to totally destroy the rod bearing, rod AND the crank. Since the crank was bad I had to pull the block which started me down the path of a total rebuild. I've still had to do it on the cheap though since it wasn't in the budget to replace the crank, etc.

Definitely pull the head and pan to see whats up inside but don't be surprised if its a LOT worse than it sounds right now.

If you want any more gory details or info on where I sourced used parts let me know.

Brad

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PD Mechanical

05-13-2005 07:54:29




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 Re: Case 188D rebuild? in reply to Bill (IN), 05-13-2005 07:40:44  
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Usually your best bet is a sleeve and piston kit. Additional cost shouldn't be all that much and in the long run you'll be glad you did. As far as the injection pump goes, more than likley the reason for hard starts is lack of compression. With the rebuild you'll eliminate this as a problem. If after you rebuild, it is still hard starting then you may have to get into the pump and maybe injectors too. But for now, just stick with the rebuild and see where that gets you. If you have any more questions or if you need a rebuild kit or other parts feel free to contact me directly. And be sure to visit our website.

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