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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

I really need some advice on this D4D

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ETD66SS

08-09-2005 06:39:12




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I posted a while back about a D4D I was interested in, no one could seem to help me.

I just need some general advice on this unit.

I inspected the unit, and noticed a hole in the exhuast manifold, and a leaky fuel tank, and the right brake pedal just goes to the floor. I know nothing about dozers...

Here is an email I got from the salesman when I inquired about the price of the unit $17,000:

"I hope this note finds you well. The Cat D4D is a 1976. The bottem is not in to bad of shape. The pads are excellent pins are about 50%. The right tensioner arm has a slight bend in it, but does not create problems in operation. We really have not done much with the machine. The $17000 is with us investing shop labor, at $65/hr into the machine to go through it. Our preference at this point is to sell the machine as is. If you are willing to put some love and effort into the machine we are willing to let it go for only $11,000. We have someone comming from Syracuse later in the week on it. They we here Sunday, but we were not. On the JD 750B - $23,500 is the price. Give me a call to discuss this further or to arrange delivery. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you in this matter."

Does the D4D have a hydraulic reverser, or is the drivetrain manual?

It's a 1976 CAT D4D LGP?

Thx in advance for your help...

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Leland

08-11-2005 01:29:34




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
THT equip in Terra Haute always has D-8s for around 20 grand and working around D-4s I was not impressed with them they were like trying to pull a 6 bottom plow with an 8n ford you will be money ahead in the long run with a larger machine and they hold there resale value better whrn you decide to sell it . A d7 or d8 can move more at idle than 2 D4's can running wide open full speed s in your case bigger is better

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Doc Larry

08-10-2005 19:05:40




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
For what it"s worth, about 2 years ago I filled in a pond with a rented D5M. The pond was on a gentle slope such that three sides had a "dam" above the topography, and the pond was cut down as well. At any rate, the area of the pond with dams was about an acre and a half and I simply pushed the dams back into the hole. I spend the better part of two weeks filling in the pond and although I sorta got the job done, believe me, I wish I"d had a D6 or even a D7. But as you say, if you have other jobs suited to a D4 and have the time, whatever works....

Larry

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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 19:24:00




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to Doc Larry, 08-10-2005 19:05:40  
Well, that's why I asked all of you for opinons...

I'm still kinda wide open, and I don't have to decide for a while yet...

Just trying to research this out well...



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Gary Mckenzie

08-10-2005 12:51:25




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
I think you're on the right track with the D4C. The repairs on the D4D could quickly turn into more than you bargained for, especially the brake. If your luck is like mine you'd find much more needing attention once you got into it. I wouldn't recommend the JD 750 either. While it's a much stronger machine, the hydrostat system can be expensive to repair. Now to the pond... I wouldn't think twice about taking it on with a machine that size. If you have the time, go for it! I think you can move far more than 1 yd per pass, probably closer to 4-5 yds if you use slot dozing to rough it in. I don't know the soil conditions where you are, but if your dozer doesn't have a ripper get a single shank subsoiler for the Jubilee and get after it. Most important- have fun, be safe, and post more pictures!

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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 13:03:10




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to Gary Mckenzie, 08-10-2005 12:51:25  
Thx for the info Gary.

The soil where I am varies greatly, I have 7 different soil types on my 63 acres...

I've been logging the section shown on my pictures all summer long, the soil so far has been different types of sandy loam, top soil, some spots looks like white beach sand.

B4 I buy a dozer, I'm going to dig a few deep holes with my 575D to see what type of clay I'll be dealing with.

So far 6 feet down its still very easy soil to move...

I was told by the town civil engineer that I won't hit clay until about 6' down at the pond location.

Some spots I have brought up some clay, but it's clay mixed with sand, I have yet to hit any real dense clay, I assume I'll hit that down 10' or so...

I plan to dig some test holes soon, about 15' deep to see what I'm dealing with...

I'll also factor that into my decision...

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Gary Mckenzie

08-10-2005 13:20:57




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-10-2005 13:03:10  
The test holes are a good idea, in my area if you haven't found good clay @ 10' you won't find any at all. That usually means hauling clay in or using truckloads of Bentonite, either way it gets real expensive real fast. Sometimes you dig ponds, sometimes you build them. The soil types determine which.



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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 13:37:33




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to Gary Mckenzie, 08-10-2005 13:20:57  
Yeah, I don't have the soil maps in hand...

I was assured by the town civil engineer I'd have enough clay to line the bottom of the pond, and build up the berm, roads, etc...

I'm gonna dig some test holes tonight, take some pictures of what I dug up, and post them here so you guys can take a look...

He also said the pond would be fed by a natural spring if I went 20' down... Still need to line the pond with clay though...

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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 18:37:33




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-10-2005 13:37:33  
Take a look at the new pictures I posted from my soil test.

I hit red clay at about 7.5 ft, and then gray clay at 9 ft.

At about 12 ft I hit some rounded stone.

I did not hit ground water at 12 ft...



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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 07:51:29




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
I should also say the whatever dozer I buy, will be used to build many roads, driveways, burm around the pond & 3 houses, etc on this lot...

I know there may be better singular pieces of equipment for getting the pond dug, but I need to keep all the other tasks in hand that I have planned.

The 575D TLB has worked out great so far, so I'm happy with all the advice which you guys gave me to lead me to that purchase.

I again thank you now for the same great advice :)

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richlizzy

08-10-2005 07:38:41




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
I will have a 5010I John Deere scraper for sale in the next few days. Need to finish up current job. Will post on photo ads tonight or tomorrow. Best way to build a pond. Pick up the dirt and move it where you want it. Also easy to separate black dirt from clay. If interested Call 309-723-6084 or 309-286-6658. Thanks, John



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Mike / Wa

08-09-2005 16:54:28




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
You might want to consider an older D7 or D8 with a pull pan.Rent a D3 to dress things up when you are finished,or use the pan tractor with a blade.You are talking about moving 16-20,000 yards of material. Figure you get a 1 yard maybe with each bladefull,that's 30-50,000 trips in and out of the pond. You would have the bottom run off a new dozer time you get done.



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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 03:58:26




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to Mike / Wa, 08-09-2005 16:54:28  
"You are talking about moving 16-20,000 yards of material. Figure you get a 1 yard maybe with each bladefull,that's 30-50,000 trips in and out of the pond. You would have the bottom run off a new dozer time you get done."

Huh?

A guy here at work had a 1 acre pond dug, 15' deep with a 3:1 slope. Took the guy 4 days with a D8.

How would I run the tracks off a D4 doing the same job?

I'll be using my 575D for digging the pond as well. Plus I have a Jubilee and a 72 Ford 9000 tandem axle dump truck as well.

The more I think about it, the more I want to save my money and try to get a D4C for around $20,000 next spring.

I guess I'm just not in favor of buying an old beat to hell cable D8... I see too much $$$ that would go into repairs...

Thank you all for your good advice, I'm not gonna go for this D4D...

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BIgC

08-10-2005 07:00:01




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-10-2005 03:58:26  
Let me just add in some advice here...earthmoving is sort of like building a pole barn....figure out how much space you need and then... DOUBLE IT! The same holds true for your equipment...you will beat up a little machine doing big jobs...I love my little TD9 and do alot of work with it but reality hit when I need to move serious dirt to fill in some BIG ditches....thats why I bought an HD16..Remember if you have those tracors you can clean up alot with a Blade on them. My advice is buy a Big older machine(there are good ones out there patience) move your dirt and do the clean up with the tractors....theres no rule that says you have to backdrag and have a smooth finish all with a dozer...thats what tractors are for.

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Mike/wa

08-10-2005 06:49:38




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-10-2005 03:58:26  
You are going bigger and deeper on your pond. A D8 will move 20-30 times more material in a days time than a D4,especially a LGP tractor. The bachoe and the dump truck won't be alot of help with the exception of digging in the outfall pipe. Unless you have 2-3 months to devote to pushing out a pond,I would seriously consider a large tractor,or a larger track loader.



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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 07:25:01




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to Mike/wa, 08-10-2005 06:49:38  
"Unless you have 2-3 months to devote to pushing out a pond,I would seriously consider a large tractor,or a larger track loader."

I have all next summer to push out this pond...

Ok, what is an LGP tractor?



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Mike/wa

08-10-2005 09:22:39




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-10-2005 07:25:01  
LGP> Low Ground Pressure or wide track.Made for wet swampy conditions,when used on hard ground are very hard on pins and bushings,rollers and finals. It will take you 10 hrs a day,7 days a week for 3 months to push out that pond with a D-4. Time you figure in fuel,oil and filter changes,breakdowns,and undercarriage wear,plus the 20K for t6he machine,you would be money ahead to have it done.4-5 days with a D8 @ $125/hr is not even the cost of the $2.50/gal fuel you will burn trying to wear out the D4.

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ETD66SS

08-10-2005 09:35:49




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to Mike/wa, 08-10-2005 09:22:39  
"LGP> Low Ground Pressure or wide track.Made for wet swampy conditions,when used on hard ground are very hard on pins and bushings,rollers and finals. It will take you 10 hrs a day,7 days a week for 3 months to push out that pond with a D-4. Time you figure in fuel,oil and filter changes,breakdowns,and undercarriage wear,plus the 20K for t6he machine,you would be money ahead to have it done.4-5 days with a D8 @ $125/hr is not even the cost of the $2.50/gal fuel you will burn trying to wear out the D4."

Thx for the info.

I'm not paying to have the work done, nor will I rent a dozer. This is a long term project woven into more long term projects that I need this Dozer for. I simply do not have the time to schedule something like that, I work on my land when I can, I don't plan around it...

I have about 6 months do decide what I want to do...

What about the JD 750B I looked at, they want $23,000 for it... That's a bit smaller than a D8?

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puffie40

08-09-2005 16:22:59




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
$11,000 seems quite a bit for a machine that will need a lot of work. See if you can knock him down on that price.

I think the hole in manifold should only make it a little loud. I think if you could get someone to patch it by brazing a plate over it, it should be okay (Depending on the size, If it's a big hole, I think you should replace the manifold.)

The leaky fuel tank is the same idea. patch it with metal plates or use line-a-tank.

As for the brake, It could be a variety of reasons, from it just needs adjusting, to the pads need replacing. The manual should tell you how to adjust it.

did you see if it ran and how well it ran?

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ETD66SS

08-09-2005 10:37:47




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
Thanks for all the advice.

I don't need a dozer until next spring, I'm going to hold off for now.

For those of you who don't know, I plan to dig a 1-1.5 acre pond.

You can see the work I've done so far with my 575D TLB I purchased last spring, see link below...

I'm actually much farther along than the pictures show, have not had time to upload more photos.

The pond is going to be around 20' deep...

I'm thinking a CAT D4, Case 850 or a JD 450 is what I'll be in the market for next spring...

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Aleuicius

08-09-2005 09:24:57




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
Have you tried Carroll Equipment in Skaneatles?



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hector gemme

08-09-2005 08:51:56




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
HI I thank it is to much money.



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Bob/Ont

08-09-2005 08:37:20




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
It looks like a powershift trans from the pic.
Later Bob



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BigC

08-09-2005 08:18:00




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 06:39:12  
For that price..I would say NO WAY! I don't know what you want it for but you can do a whole lot better than that...unless you have money to burn.



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ETD66SS

08-09-2005 08:31:09




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to BigC, 08-09-2005 08:18:00  
OK, I've been searching for quite some time, this is the cheapest Dozer I've seen im my area...

What should a 1976 D4D with 3600 hrs be going for?



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jerry van

08-10-2005 09:43:16




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 Re: I really need some advice on this D4D in reply to ETD66SS, 08-09-2005 08:31:09  
i have an 86 Cat D3B lgp with one thousand hours. the under carriage is almost as new. I will probably be selling this fall or winter after i finish some projects.



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