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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case 450B won't steer properly after warming up.

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J Kirsch

09-07-2005 14:06:25




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Using the hand levers, ( the foot pedals work fine ) after a couple of hours of operation, the tractor steering lags---it doesn't respond as quickly as it does when first started. Someone told me if the master-cylinder reservoirs are too full of brake fluid, this could result. The brakes were recently worked on and the master cylinder reservoirs were topped off. Can someone explain why this is possible? Thanks for all your help. John in Syracuse NY

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Case450

09-12-2005 18:45:29




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-07-2005 14:06:25  
If i was you i would ask George Md.....he helped me with my machine (it was a collapsing suction hose) and he seems to know his stuff.



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butch tn

09-10-2005 03:14:41




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-07-2005 14:06:25  
i agree with some of the other guys .i think that when the oil gets to operating tep the o rings on the shuttle valves are buy passing oil i'd replacw the o rings



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J Kirsch

09-10-2005 15:17:36




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to butch tn, 09-10-2005 03:14:41  
Thankyou for all your help. Today I took your advice and put a small (very small) hole in the rubber diaphram at the top of the master cylinder reservoir with a knife. The machine ran like a champ all day without any hint of trouble. Problem solved. I thought I was looking at major surgery and you guys presented a penknife solution. Thankyou again. John in Syracuse NY



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marlowe

09-10-2005 16:30:34




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-10-2005 15:17:36  
what happens is the OEM cyl. have a hole in them and if you replace the master cyl with one from NAPA or other after market thats used on trucks they have no hole



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J Kirsch

09-10-2005 17:41:52




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to marlowe, 09-10-2005 16:30:34  
Gotcha---and that is exactly what happened---the master cylinders were replaced with cylinders that came from NAPA. I'm just grateful that you were around to get me straightened out. Thanks again. John in Syracuse



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marlowe

09-10-2005 19:12:06




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-10-2005 17:41:52  
what the hel- i'am smarter then i look NOT you should have said that they were replacement cly. and then i would have been on it faster



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marlowe

09-09-2005 12:09:48




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-07-2005 14:06:25  
what you were told about the brakes is true they will build up preasure and then it will start to lag most of the time it will be one side



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J Kirsch

09-09-2005 17:00:14




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to marlowe, 09-09-2005 12:09:48  
Thanks for your replies--You hit the nail on the head. Today I cleaned the radiator and removed brake fluid from the resevoirs until it was about and inch from the top of the resevoir and still after a couple of hours the left track became sluggish and finally it had no power at all. The right track seemed to work fine. Inside the cap on the master cylinder there is a rubber boot, should there be a vent hole in the cap (like a gas cap) to aleviate the build up of pressure? There is no vent hole that I can see. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you all for your help.

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marlowe

09-09-2005 17:17:01




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-09-2005 17:00:14  
you have to have a vent my 450 did this and the head mec. at my case dealer said this happens all the time told me to poke a little hole in the rubber never had the problem again. most 450s the foot brakes don't work any way. my right don't work and don't miss it never use the foot brakes anyway



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kstx

09-09-2005 19:09:41




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to marlowe, 09-09-2005 17:17:01  
Marlowes correct, you have to have a vent to relieve pressure on the master cylinders. I quit using my brakes years ago because corrosion on/in the master cylinders would cause the rods to hang up and not disengage. I would have to use a pry bar to disengage the master cylinder rod. Once the rod was released the machine would run fine. After removing the floorboard a few times I just quit using the brakes completly. I guess that's one of the great things about a Case dozer, you don't need brakes to steer. Let us know if the vent helps.

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kstx

09-09-2005 08:03:08




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-07-2005 14:06:25  
You might want to check to see if the radiator is clean, especially around the edges. I have had the same problem with my 450B in the past. The transmission cooling rods are in the outer edges of the radiator. I pull the grill off and wash out with a pressure washer whenever possible. Air can also be used. There are 2 other possibilities: (1) clogged hydraulic filters or (2) hot oil is bypassing the torque convertor seal. Steering with the hand levers on the Case 450B is all hydraulic and the brakes don't play a role in steering. You are basically changing the speed of the tracks to make your turns. Hope this helps.

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John Van Valkenburgh

09-08-2005 19:52:22




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to J Kirsch, 09-07-2005 14:06:25  
I suppose it is possible that if pressure were to build up in the brake resovoir that eventually it could begin to activate the steering clutch but the question remains how is the pressure building up? I doubt that heat from normal operation would do it.

If you want to check that possibility you could pull the floor panel and back off both brake adjusters until the foot brakes are no longer effective. Then run the machine and see if you get any problems. I would be more interested in what the gauges are telling you in regards to transmission and TC pressure.

When the steering lags is there also a loss in tractive power? Loss of TC pressure would tend to make overall movement sluggish or weak.

Best of luck,
John
1968 Case 450

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J Kirsch

09-09-2005 07:39:06




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 Re: Case 450B won't steer properly after warming u in reply to John Van Valkenburgh, 09-08-2005 19:52:22  
John---Thanks for responding--The guages are normal, in the green and the tractor has plenty of power once the steering actually engages. The problem is that after a couple of hours of hard work, the steering, although it works, is slow in responding. The tractor runs like a champ for the first hour or so. John in Syracuse.



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