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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

HELP.....Heating Problem

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DeanH

10-15-2005 20:06:36




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I really need help here....I have a 580B diesel backhoe. It continues to heat on me. I have replaced the water pump, acidized the radiator, replaced the thermostat, flushed the system, and it STILL heats.
Also, it digs just fine, but has absolutely no power when driving down the rode or even up the slightest incline, just about dies and smokes.
I really appreciate any help someone can give me!

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Hermit

10-17-2005 12:34:31




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-15-2005 20:06:36  
How about this then - Remove the thermostat and check for coolant flow in the radiator. It should be going full bore since nothing is slowing it down. If it is flowing good without the thermostat and restricted flow with a thermostat, I'd seriously look at the temp indicator or sensor or wiring. As for the lack of power problem, if it only happens when the tractor is moving is it possible the brakes aren't fully releasing?

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DeanH

10-17-2005 12:44:36




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to Hermit, 10-17-2005 12:34:31  
If I remember right....when I had the thermostat out there still was not any flow. Plugged block?



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Bob/Ont

10-17-2005 13:23:31




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-17-2005 12:44:36  
Good point about the brakes, make sure it will roll free when you kick it out of gear.
Later Bob



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shannon from ohio

10-16-2005 10:21:35




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-15-2005 20:06:36  
How about the injector pump timing??? Is it correct?



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DeanH

10-16-2005 17:36:54




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to shannon from ohio, 10-16-2005 10:21:35  
I don't have a manual that shows how to do that.....Can you explain it or lead me to a site that would explain how to do it? I really appreciate the help.



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Hermit

10-16-2005 07:38:59




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-15-2005 20:06:36  
I'll give it a shot. Are you sure it's overheating? Had a thermometer in the radiator/coolant and compared temps to the gauge. Any bubbles in the coolant when running indicating blown head gasket or cracked head. As for lack of power, I'd make sure there's no water in the fuel tank/fuel filters and change filters if dirty. Also, check that the fuel lines from tank aren't clogged.



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DeanH

10-16-2005 17:39:33




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to Hermit, 10-16-2005 07:38:59  
Thanks for the advice Hermit. I have not tried the thermometer, but will. As for the fuel...I have replaced the filters....have not checked the fuel lines. It has excellent power when I am digging, but when I come to push with the bucket or try to go down the road, or even the slightest incline, the tractor almost dies for lack of power and starts to really smoke.



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Hermit

10-16-2005 18:42:52




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-16-2005 17:39:33  
Relatively speaking, the hydraulic pump takes much less power than it does to move and accelerate a tractor. As for smoking when it starts to die, if it is pumping out black smoke then the govenor is doing it's job by pushing more fuel into the chambers to compensate. If it is pumping out white or gray smoke, something else is wrong because it shows bad combustion due to faulty injectors, leaky water jacket, leaky oil gallery, cracked head, etc.

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DeanH

10-16-2005 20:24:45




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to Hermit, 10-16-2005 18:42:52  
Hermit.....it is black smoke. I have replaced the filters....no improvement, seems to be worse than it was last year. Really has me at a loss as to what is causing it. As for the overheating, when the gauge goes to red I can remove the radiator cap and stick my finger in the fluid, my guess it is about 110-120 degrees and it is not circulating.



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Bob/Ont

10-16-2005 20:36:08




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-16-2005 20:24:45  
Take the rad out again and flush it both ways with a garden hose. If you have a new water pump/Assumeing it is the correct one for your engine then the only things it could be would be a clogged rad or the wrong thermostat, Assumeing again that it has a bypass that the thermostat controls aswell as flow to the rad. Now about the low power to drive, unless the trans is slipping you may need a torque converter. Does it kill the engine when you try to drive up a hill? When it digs good do you get much black smoke?
Later Bob

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DeanH

10-16-2005 20:44:42




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to Bob/Ont, 10-16-2005 20:36:08  
Bob, thanks for the help.....I had the rad in and rodded out.....changed thermostat twice, but not sure if they sent the right one...they said they did...180 degree thermostat. Water pump is the correct one. I have even run it without the thermostat....same thing happens. As to the power situation....the trans is not slipping. It does not smoke at all when I am digging, just when I try to go down the road or when I push with the bucket and if I don't back off then it will kill.

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Bob/Ont

10-17-2005 08:47:29




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-16-2005 20:44:42  
Here is what I think Dean. The trans/converter is over loading your engine while you are traveling/ pushing dirt. The reason they use torque converters is they multiply torque when under heavy load. The Stater inside is what does this, it is usually locked up solid but some times is mounted on a spragg clutch. Either way is it breaks loose the converter will bring the engine down to it's knees while hardly driving at all. The converter makes heat when working under load and this way all it does is make heat not drive. Do you have the over heating all the time, when digging too or just when driving? If you have it all the time maybe the block is as clogged up as the rad was. I have seen a few staters break loose on machinery and one in my station waggon. It was a challenge to get back home and when I did it was really smoking.
Later Bob

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DeanH

10-17-2005 12:42:42




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to Bob/Ont, 10-17-2005 08:47:29  
Bob, Sounds like the problem. It does heat when digging also. Is there something I can run through the block to flush it out? As far as the torque converter....would I have to replace it or just get it out and flush it?



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Bob/Ont

10-17-2005 13:20:37




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-17-2005 12:42:42  
I think I would drain the coolant all out, there should be a plug on the side of the block to drain it too. Have a look at what comes out, maybe pour it into another pail and see what is left in the bottom. Then take the thermostat out and lower hose off and flush it through with a garden hose, if dirt comes out keep flushing. If there is a lot coming out maybe remove the water pump and flush that way too. I have seen a large diesel engine block full of rust and scale half way up the liners. As for the torque converter, it depends what kind it is, some can be taken apart and repaired others are welded together like an automotive one and you need an exchange. Before you get into that drain the trans oil and change the filter. Cut the filter open and inspect everything for metal chips and grindings. If the trans is contaminated with metal it will need to come apart and be cleaned and repaired, if the oil is reasonable clean you may get away with a converter.
Later Bob

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DeanH

10-17-2005 17:22:14




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to Bob/Ont, 10-17-2005 13:20:37  
Thanks Bob for the help. What is the diff. between power shuttle and mechanical shuttle? I believe mine is a power shuttle, there are just a forward and reverse pedals on the floor along with another lever on the steering column for highway use.



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Bob/Ont

10-17-2005 18:08:11




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-17-2005 17:22:14  
You got me there Dean????? Most of the loader backhoes I have seen have a for/rev powershift with a torque converter and a mechanical trans for speeds. I don't know what yours has. Does the peddal vary the travel speed or just select direction? If it varies the speed it sounds like a Hydrostatic drive, the old IHC's had that. An old tractor the road krew had in the 60's had a shuttle clutch/ for/rev lever but it was crude by todays tractors, that might be a mechanical shuttle. The For/Rev lever on the big direct drive dozers would be a mechanical shuttle too I guess.
Later Bob

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ksb

10-15-2005 21:01:33




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-15-2005 20:06:36  
Have you checked your air cleaner?



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DeanH

10-16-2005 07:09:37




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to ksb, 10-15-2005 21:01:33  
Yes I have checked the air cleaner, in fact I replaced it with a new one.



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cannonball

10-17-2005 05:01:46




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-16-2005 07:09:37  
does it have a hose from air filter to engine ..if so is it closing up ....do you have any hose on suction side of fuel that could close up...just a thought.. have nice day may god bless



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DeanH

10-17-2005 06:42:03




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to cannonball, 10-17-2005 05:01:46  
Cannonball thanks for the input. air filter line is ok and all fuel lines are hard lines



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brmax60

10-19-2005 16:49:18




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 Re: HELP.....Heating Problem in reply to DeanH, 10-17-2005 06:42:03  
can you get a compression check done on each cyl.
pull injectors, make an adapter and use a diesel / 500psi or higher guage
im guesing a blown/leaking head gasket, can you take off air intake hose and here/feel a back blast~~mis



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