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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

1010 timing error

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Lavoy

11-21-2005 16:19:00




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Several times the error in the timing procedure in the factory service manual for the 1010 diesel crawler has been discussed. My question is, does this hold true for the 2010 diesel as well?
And, on the 1010 (and 2010 if it applies) what is it about the factory process that is wrong?
We had an injector pump put on a 1010 last year, and they installed it by the Deere book, runs great. Installed an injector pump myself last week on a 2010 according to the book, runs like crap. No acceleration, runs rough, no black smoke at all. Pump and injectors came off of a very good running engine. Problem does not appear to be mechanical in nature. If you give it just the slightest hint of ether while running, it smoothes right out.
Lavoy

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Roy Suomi

11-22-2005 19:55:20




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 Re: 1010 timing error in reply to Lavoy, 11-21-2005 16:19:00  
Hey Lavoy , Wazzup. If you remember about 3 years ago I posted a problem with a 1010 that smoked and had no power. I don't exactly understand why the engine wouldn't time correctly. I had it apart many times thinking I missed something. I found nothing wrong each time . I timed it to the Deere manual and it started hard and smoked gray , heavy gray..Out of desperation I got an IT manual for a 1010 wheel tractor from Farm and Fleet. I discovered the timing in the IT manual was 90 degrees different than what the Deere manual said . I will say that I wasn't able to line up the marks in the timing window . But , I snugged it down where the bolt marks were on the pump flange . That 1010 is still running today. The owner says it has more a** than it ever did. He put about 900 hours on it without adverse effect.. I got paid , he's happy .. What else matters....

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jdemaris

11-23-2005 18:55:50




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 Someting does not make sense in reply to Roy Suomi, 11-22-2005 19:55:20  
I'd like to hear more details. I've got an open mind, but again I've never experienced the problem or any major difference between the IT and Deere manual. Taking this down to the fundementals - you've got a four cylinder engine that fires 1-3-4-2 and when setting up the initial timing, you've got #1 cylinder on TDC of compression stroke. This part is self-evident and no book needed unless there's a question as to which cylinder is #1. I know both books agree. Now, take the Roosamaster injection pump. When the timing lines are lined up - it is in fire (injection) position for #1 cylinder - period - there is no way around that - unless someone put the wrong weight-retaining ring into the pump (which in turn would have one timing mark in the wrong place). Now - at this point it is possible that someone is mis-identifying which discharge hole in the injection pump is for #1 cylinder. You can't change the firing order of the pump, but it IS possible to hook up #1 injection line to the wrong discharge hole (just like putting the wrong plug wire on a spark plug on a gas engine). Is this where you say you saw a difference between the books? When you say it shows a 90 degree difference - I'm asking in what? If, as you say, you installed the injection pump with the timing lines aligned, and #1 piston was at TDC of the compression stroke, and the engine is out of time - than either the injection pump has the wrong timing lines inside of it, or the injection line for #1 cylinder is hooked to the wrong discharge port of the pump. Please explain or tell me what I'm missing here.

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HTR

11-23-2005 22:05:51




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 Re: Someting does not make sense in reply to jdemaris, 11-23-2005 18:55:50  
Me dog is not in this race, but the on the late serial no. 2010, the fuel lines were rearranged. The no.1 fuel line was moved one hole to the left, viewed from the top of the pump. If he was installing a late pump on a early tractor, he would be 90 degrees early using the original lines. If installing a early pump on a late tractor, he would be 90 degrees late. The cam ring and Governor disk were marked accordingly, for the port, in the rotor, to be in register with the correct fuel line. I don't recall the pump numbers.

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jdemaris

11-24-2005 08:02:40




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 Now, that does make sense in reply to HTR, 11-23-2005 22:05:51  
That makes sense - but it has never been an issue for me. I don't install ANY injection pump on ANY engine without first ascertaining which port is the one that fires when the timing lines are lined up. It is very easy to check. If the pump is off the tractor - put it in a vise, use a hand-pump oil can to squirt diesel fuel into the inlet, and stick a big screwdriver into the drive end of the pump. Turn it an observe which port fuel squirts out of when the lines are aligned. If the pump is already mounted on the engine, then it is even easier to check. Simply crank the engine and observe. So, from my point of view, I don't see why any of this is problem.

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jdemaris

11-21-2005 18:16:02




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 Re: 1010 timing error in reply to Lavoy, 11-21-2005 16:19:00  
I'm not trying to be a wise-a*s here, but I thought everything had been said, that could be said on this subject. The 1010s and 2010s are basically the same engines and timing issues apply equally to both. Here is a copy of what I posted a short while ago in this forum.

I've heard similar complaints for years dating back to when the 1010s and 2010s were new. I've also heard the complaints about the Deere tech. manual being wrong and the IT wheel-tractor manual being correct. That has NOT been my experience. Just about all the fuel-timing and/or pump installation problems that I got involved in - were due to a misunderstanding of the literature - and/or using specs. for the wrong injection pump. We had similar problems with the 1010/2010 gas engines with distributor installation.
The most common problem is getting the engine oil-pump drive-gear in the correct position - since it ultimately, drives the fuel injection pump. I've never used the book, or the special Deere service tool (AM450T). I don't find it necessary - I just stick the oil pump in, observe its position on the injection-pump drive end, and if it's not right - I take it back out and move it one tooth. I never found this to be a problem.
In general, most diesel engines, if not timed properly, will spit, sputter, smoke, break-up, start hard, etc. - expecially when cold. They won't run smooth yet underpowered due to a timing problem. If your engine is running smooth - I'd suspect a low-fuel delivery problem.
That being said, many Deere engines run better with the static fuel timing advance over what the factory calls for, and sometimes with some advance added also (to cut in earlier). Some early 3010s and 4010s that use pumps similar to some 1010s were set, initially, to fire at 10-14 degrees BTC instead of TDC. I've seen this work on some 1010s and 2010s depending on the individual machine and the specific pump that is on it.
Once the injection pump is in, and the pump lines are aligned with the engine on TDC of compression sroke for #1 cylinder - you know the oil-pump is installed properly.
You need to know what injection pump you have - with "load" advance, or "speed" advance. E.g., a DBGVC429-1AJ - the "429" indicates it is a four cylinder engine pump with .29" fuel plungers - and Deere spec. series "1AJ" that designates "load advance." Other pumps that end with "1DH" or "3AJ" use a speed advance for running fuel timing.

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Bob/Ont

11-21-2005 17:29:55




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 Re: 1010 timing error in reply to Lavoy, 11-21-2005 16:19:00  
Is it spill timing an inline pump Lavoy?
Later Bob



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