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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the motor?

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Rick Reeves

11-23-2005 19:54:31




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I think a seal in our JD-450 bulldozer blew and antifreeze (probably more than less) got into the engine oil. Does it mean that a motor is ruined if it started running with knocking and strain? What do you do from here?

P.S. If you already read this in tool talk, sorry about that I posted it in the wrong section.




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Len Sholes

11-24-2005 09:36:57




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Rick Reeves, 11-23-2005 19:54:31  
Rick when the anti freeze gets into the crankcase it has some sort of reaction on the oil that causes it to destroy the bearings. If you remove a rod or main cap and look at the bearing it looks like the bearing material is been rolled up or pulled away from the shell. Almost like miniture balls of carbon. My expierence is that if you can catch it soon enough and then flush out the crankcase you should be ok. First of all you have to detemine how the anti freeze got in. The method that I have been involved in is to drain the oil and change filters. Add a gallon of Butyle Cellsolve or Dowanol to the crankcase and then fill up with new oil. Start up the engine and bring up to operating temperature by covering the rad, drain the oil and replace filter and add new oil. This chemical disolves the anti freeze and cleans out all the oil passageways in the engine. I have used this method on both Cummins and Caterpillar engines with great success. The thing you need to do after you put in the fresh oil and run the unit for a short time is to take an oil sample and have it analized to see if there are any signs of antifreeze still in the crankcase. The thing I should mention to you if you decide to go this route is to find out if there are any health issues that could come from this product. It has been a number of years since I have been involved in doing this.

If your engine has a knock in it then don't waste your time doing the flushing job you will have to rebuild the engine as it will have a bearing pounded out. Good luck

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Davis In SC

11-24-2005 18:18:35




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Len Sholes, 11-24-2005 09:36:57  
That reaction destroys the Zinc in the bearings, left long enough, they will crumble when yo take them out. I read that Cummins is starting to use a new bearing alloy that is not damaged by anti-freeze leaks. Also, it is my understanding that the new Propylene Glycol A/F is not corrosive to bearings...



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Billy NY

11-24-2005 06:53:06




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Rick Reeves, 11-23-2005 19:54:31  
I never gave this scenario much thought before, and or realized how adversely it effects the lubrication process, until last year, had an '02 chrysler sebring that did this, and if I recall correctly, something went wrong with the waterpump, crankcase got contaminated with coolant, some oddball thing that allowed this to happen, was still under warranty, new short block and heads out of the "crate" by the dealer, motor was toast, did not toss a rod, but it was done, knocked, then seized up, quickly. Being a automoile engine, probably did not take much. Lot of times I can recall a head gasket failing on an engine, oil getting like chocolate milk, but never had it get into the crankcase to the extent of damage, although with all the steam out the exhuast, was not long before you had to shut it off. No end to the learning process here, still rather curious myself about what coolant does to the oil to render it so useless like does. Always knew about gasoline/fuel thinning the oil, but it seems even a fair amount of that can be tolerated ( any thinning is obviously N/G ) by most engines before the bearings can't take it, the antifreeze thing sure was a new one on me though. I'd like to think that 450 would not be too bad to rebuild, a friend and I rebuilt a gasoline 1010 3 years ago, and it was not that bad at all actually, ran great afterwards, well worth it.

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Bob/Ont

11-24-2005 08:06:28




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Billy NY, 11-24-2005 06:53:06  
Billy, it makes a sludge of the oil and also washes all the old oil and carbon stuck to the inside of the engine down into the oil aswell. If you check the oils and antifreeze every time you start up you will catch it in time and likely just have to change the oil and filter. If a lot has gotten in then you can flush the crankcase and change the oil and filter twice after that and then be okay. Any gear driven water pump can cause it if the weep hole gets clogged with dirt and the impeller seal starts leaking.
Later Bob

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Billy NY

11-24-2005 09:37:06




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Bob/Ont, 11-24-2005 08:06:28  
That kind of clears it up, there is a lot to be said about checking fluids, not just to make sure the level is correct, but for things like the above, contamination, gain etc. We had an International 4300 pulling our lowboy and it had 450,000 miles on it, 400 Cummins, forget the exact model now, kept gaining on the oil dipstick. Always some vapor out the stack, ( thought it was white smoke ) and we ran it a few months like that, but the oil did not seem to get too contaminated or adversely affected to the eye, probably took a chance running it, but nothing major happened fortunately and the truck was needed,we were busy. Across the street is a highly reputable truck/diesel repair shop, do all the major fleet work locally, and they did a complete rebuild for us on it. They found one of the cylinders corroded through, was leaking, cavitation obviouisly, boy did that thing run nice after, added a 3 stage Jacobs engine brake, like night and day, got a new lease on life after the rebuild.

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Bob/Ont

11-24-2005 12:35:19




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Billy NY, 11-24-2005 09:37:06  
Billy there used to be a coolant called DowTherm, smellt like alcohol. It was not suposed to ruin your engine if it got into the oil. Not sure it was as good as it was supposed to be or not. Haven't seen it in years. Some liners really get erroded away on the outside.
Later Bob



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Rick Reeves

11-23-2005 20:07:45




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Rick Reeves, 11-23-2005 19:54:31  
That bad, huh?



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Bob/Ont

11-24-2005 04:49:55




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Rick Reeves, 11-23-2005 20:07:45  
If you catch it right away you can repair the leak and flush the crankcase. The knocking and straining you say make me think there is crank bearing dammage and maybe the pistons are smearing metal on the cyl walls. Better tear it down and save as much as you can.
Later Bob



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old

11-23-2005 20:49:09




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Rick Reeves, 11-23-2005 20:07:45  
Yep and if its a knocking then its real bad. If you keep running it that way you will probably end up with a rod out the side of the engine.



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old

11-23-2005 20:03:01




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 Re: Antifreeze in oil--What does it do to the moto in reply to Rick Reeves, 11-23-2005 19:54:31  
Antifreeze in the oil will destory every thing that gets lubed by the oil. All bearings the rings etc will be destoryed. Sounds like your looking at rebuilding that engine.



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