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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

ROPS and seat belt on 1970's J.D. loaders dozers

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Tom Carpenter

12-19-2005 11:50:26




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I posted a message relative to seat belts on a JD 555 but haven't gotten any response. What I really need to know is if John Deere put ROPS on some of the late 60's and early 70's models but neglected to include a seat belt? apparently, Rops were potional for some period of time. Perhaps the dealer then installed the rops when the purchaser required them but they neglected to install a seat belt. Any comments or information will be appreciated.

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Ducknose Bob

12-20-2005 04:21:47




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 Re: ROPS and seat belt on 1970's J.D. loaders doz in reply to Tom Carpenter, 12-19-2005 11:50:26  
Smells like a lawyer sniffing around to sue Deere.
I would love to know how John Deere can be held responsible for someone not purchasing an optional attachment, or not using the seat belt if it was installed.



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Chuck430C

12-21-2005 06:45:15




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 Re: lawyers - ? in reply to jdemaris, 12-20-2005 06:01:17  
I agree that there appears to be more than enough lawyers willing to take any case on a "winner takes all" basis. They convince the unknowing in to signing on by stating that they will not pay unless the case is won. Well, that is attractive to folks that have a limited budget, but the fact is IF they win the case, the plantiffs get tooled in many cases. The lawyers end up with the lion's share. How can this be allowed? The basis for the suit in the first place is for the plantiffs to attepmt to recover losses.
I think we have the foxes guarding the hen house of justice.
The way to put some structure in this is to make lawyer fees similar to real estate fees. There should be a base line, and then a max as to what a law firm can harvest off of each case. If they contend that the case "cost" a lot, then they should pass on taking it.
BUT, the other side of this coin that is not discussed is how long big corps took people to the cleaners because they knew the little person could not afford legal teams that knew the ropes.

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seann

12-20-2005 11:15:21




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 Re: lawyers - ? in reply to jdemaris, 12-20-2005 06:01:17  
Amen Jd! You hit the nail on the head with these remarks. And if you think this sort of thing is bad in the crawler world take a look at the aviation industry, especially for smaller aircraft. Liability costs which include BIG payouts and incredibly high liability insurance rates, has all but put the end to small time innovation in the light aircraft industry. It also essentially forces smaller airlines to endlessly re-use antique aircraft for their fleets (take a look at what happened in Miami yesterday). Not that old aircraft are necessarily a bad thing, but the fact of the matter is, if the liability monkey could be removed from the manufacturer's back, much newer and improved (and safer) models would be widely available in many sizes and at MUCH lower cost then what is currently available (which would be passed down to flying consumers/passengers too).

There are also other negative implications to liability abuse. I've heard stories of manufacturers of aircraft actually withholding the implementation of various performance/safety improvements to their aircraft for fear of it sending a message to litigators that "this proves they were aware of the shortcomings of their product". Result? Stifled product innovation, performance, safety and skyrocketing prices for the consumer...and retarded growth and success of the manufacturer (who also provides JOBS) and of course many go to outright bankruptcy or sellout to foreign buyers.

If it was widely known and understood just how much money is funneled from ordinary people's pockets into the lawyers coffers on a day to day basis as a result of this very thing, it would boggle the mind. And it isn't just the lawyers either, in many cases there are juries which play along and award these outlandish suits. Burn yourself on a hot McDonald's coffee and get three million dollars!

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jdemaris

12-19-2005 17:01:41




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 Re: ROPS and seat belt on 1970's J.D. loaders doz in reply to Tom Carpenter, 12-19-2005 11:50:26  
I installed many ROPS on Deere crawlers from the late 60s on to late 80s. Early on we built a few, and the rest came from Deere. I don't know or remember what year Deere crawlers came new with seat-belts but we installed a few here and there when requested. I think they became standard equipment with the C series. They usually were not wanted - and if they existed -were rarely used. The canopy (ROPS) did not come with a seat belt kit - i.e. it was an extra item. Most of the people we sold canopies to usually wanted them to keep stuff from landing on their heads - rolling over was a lower priorty - even though ROPS is an acronym for Roll Over Protective - Something or other. Just about all the crawlers we sold to loggers got a ROPS and a limb-riser kit. Many crawler-loaders did not - since it got in the way in tight places.

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Tom Carpenter

12-19-2005 21:33:00




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 Re: ROPS and seat belt on 1970's J.D. loaders doz in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2005 17:01:41  
Thanks for your response. I may want to follow up with you for more detail at some point later on. In response to "jdemans"



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