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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Road building

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Phil - MO

01-12-2006 05:39:38




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A quick question.

I have a JD 450 crawler loader to work with.

I have a basement foundation poured and have been waiting several weeks for the basement floor to be poured so we can start framing up. (Can't get the concrete trucks in when wet).

If I rock a road in to the house (I'm going to need one to the garage anyway) do I have to remove the sod or just have the quarry dump rock across the field? Lots of rocky ground underneath the sod here in the Ozarks. I have a box blade behind the farm tractor to smooth with. Probably need to go about 300 yards. I was hoping to build the road after the house was framed up to keep people from driving in when I'm not around. People seem to carry stuff off when I'm not around.

I guess what I'm really asking is how to do the driveway?

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scott lamberson

01-13-2006 08:52:12




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
Have you guys had any luck using crushed concrete or concrete/blacktop millings mix? I will be building a road late this fall or winter and have been kicking around the idea of using crushed concrete for a base, spread a road mix overtop or even the concrete/blacktop millings mix for a top coat. Tell me what you think or have experienced.



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Blackhole49

01-14-2006 06:37:10




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 Re: Road building in reply to scott lamberson, 01-13-2006 08:52:12  
Be carefull of crushed concrete and rubber tired machines. Lots of pieces of wire mesh and flats.



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Dale(MO)

01-13-2006 10:57:13




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 Re: Road building in reply to scott lamberson, 01-13-2006 08:52:12  
Scott,
I haven't used the crushed concrete, but I have used a lot of milled asphalt. The millings work really well, whether as base or topping. When used as base, they need to be 6"-8" deep (compacted). The only problem I have had with them is with drainage. The rain runs through them a lot faster and more than with crushed limestone, so it needs to be able to get out, or the edges will be soft for a long time. It takes about a year, then it should firm up.
If you can get crushed concrete, I think that would be great for a base, then top with the millings.

Good luck,
Dale(MO)

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scott lamberson

01-13-2006 11:14:27




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 Re: Road building in reply to Dale(MO), 01-13-2006 10:57:13  
Yes, a local gravel pit has started an operation where they take busted up concrete and run it through a crusher, and make various sizes of "agregate" They haven't totally refined the process, so you have to watch it, and pick through it after it's spread, sometimes it has chunkes of rebar or mesh. Some people don't like that, but it is drastically cheaper, so I don't mind picking through it a little to get out any metal. here in Central Illinois crushed limestone, is not that cheap to buy. The other thing is like you said, it is really only good for base, as the concrete when crushed kinda has sharp edges and kinda rough on tires. But they have also started offering it where asphalt millings are mixed in with the crushed concrete, haven't seen it or worked with it yet, but sounds like it would work great. my parents lane is about 1/4 mile long, so we do a little road maintanence every spring to fill in pot holes and build up certain sections of the lane a little at a time. But the blacktop millings themself, work for a good topping. I bought some property in June and plan to build in summer of 07' so this fall or even winter I want to begin constructing my lane,it will be approx. 1400' long. I was thinking the geo fabric/crushed concrete base/blacktop millings or CA6 to help bind/ then place strictly black top millings after the heavy trucks are done coming in and out. How expensive is the fabric? and where can you buy it from? How bout slag? do you guys have that or used it before? We have been able to get a few small loads, hard to get to compact, but once it's compact, hard as rock. Thanks for the input

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Dale(MO)

01-14-2006 06:30:28




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 Re: Road building in reply to scott lamberson, 01-13-2006 11:14:27  
The only slag I've worked with is from my cutting torch.;) Seriously, though, what type of slag is it - coal? About the only mining around here is fireclay, so clay spoils are it, and they are only good for fill.
As far as the fabric, the only place I have worked with it is on asphalt overlays on major roads. I guess it does it's job, but it sure is a pain to work with. The only advantage I have felt from it is not getting tack oil on my boots when I get out to unroll the tarp on my dumptruck before I get in the paver. Only the big companies fool with the stuff, and it's usually for a large municipality or county, so I would guess it is pretty expensive. I would think, too, that your subgrade would have to be extremely smooth and compacted for the fabric to be effective, or else you would have mountains and ditches in it, and probably would tear holes in it. Just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you decide to go with, and keep us posted.

Dale(MO)

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seann

01-13-2006 19:55:52




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 Re: Road building in reply to scott lamberson, 01-13-2006 11:14:27  
I have some recycled concrete on the first 200 feet or so of my road. It does hold up well and can really provide a good base, but like you said there is usually debris in it. Although I haven't gotten a flat yet I've heard of other people getting them pretty frequently. Plus there can be trash (bottles, bits of plastic etc) mixed in. But overall it's a good cheap alternative, just cover it up with the asphalt millings which works well and is easily gradeable too. It would be best to roll the asphalt once you're done to compact and help seal it up, and then if you really want to get fancy top it off with blue chip and tar. Makes it looks and perform like a regular asphalt road. Good luck.

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Phil - MO

01-13-2006 06:12:03




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
Thanks for the responses.
I think I'll move the road over a little to follow the crown of the field. From the county gravel road I'll have about 150 yards across a cedar flat (for those not in the Ozarks this is solid rock shelves of limestone and dolomite rock that only red cedar will grow on with very little dirt) and the rest across the pasture field with fescue sod.
The rock I get from the local quarry is white (limestone?) and costs me $5.50 a ton plus $45 delivery making it about $150 a double axle dump truck load. I think I'll put 1" clean across the cedar flat and skin the sod off the field and 2" clean topped with 1" across the field after the heavy equipment is done. Since I'm on the crown of the land, I don't think drainage will be a problem.
I think this will be cheaper that crossing 300 yards in the pasture.

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old

01-13-2006 08:30:25




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-13-2006 06:12:03  
What part of these here hills you in?? I found the best way is the 2 inch stuff first then dirty base, dirty base has a lot of lime powder in it then the 1 inch stuff. Did road building for a liveing around the lake of the oxarks for years. Shoot if you drive hwy 54 or 33 you will drive over some of my work LOL



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muggsw6

01-13-2006 07:57:33




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-13-2006 06:12:03  
I agree with tom turkey's post, if you are going across sod to skim 4-6 out and lay 6oz. fabric down. the cost of the fabric will pay for itself again and again in saved rock. my 2pennies



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Ain't zackly

01-12-2006 13:45:06




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
building driveways, but this might help.



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Case450

01-12-2006 13:33:03




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
for an inexpensive road i remove the topsoil and the mucky stuff. Otherwise if you lay your road on top of it, the road will always have potholes and soft spots as the water will creep under the road. after i remove the topsoil i put in at least six inches of pitrun (a mixture of coarse rock and sand) and run the dozer back and forth over it to pack it. than finish it with a layer of crush. let that pack for about a year. than more crush to make the grade i want.

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old

01-12-2006 13:43:13




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 Re: Road building in reply to Case450, 01-12-2006 13:33:03  
Case, jsut a little point to make here but driving your pick up or car over it will pack it more the the dozer. If you figure a pick up at 5000lbs and theres 4- 7X8 inch places the the tires sit on the road it puts more preassure per square inch then you dozer will. I use dump trucks but I own a creek bottom and do at time sell gravel from the creek. My road was made by just putting the gravel down and its so hard that you also most never get a pot hole and if I do so does the state roads.

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seann

01-12-2006 10:46:58




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
I'm almost finished with putting in a long driveway like yours. What I did was thoroughly undercut the topsoil and mucky soil underneath. I stockpiled the topsoil temporarily. Then dug pits parallel to the road and removed suitable non-organic fill material and put that in the undercut areas. Then took the topsoil and mucky stuff and filled in the excavated pits with. I ended up with no big ugly piles of topsoil getting in the way and with decent fill in the road that won't settle or wash out in time. Now all I need to do is put stone down, rough grade, let it season for a year or two and then finish with a few inches of CR6 and/or asphalt millings and that should be it. If you have a lot of loose stone just underground that can be relatively easily removed with your loader, then you're that much ahead of the game. If there's giant boulders that can't be dug out, and/or stone is cheap in your area, then it's probably better to just undercut the topsoil and have solid fill trucked in with a decent layer of 2" stone and then fines on top. You can track it in (with the bucket loaded) and achieve reasonable compaction with your loader as long as the lifts (layers) are no more than 3 or 4 inches thick. But there will still probably be some settling when it rains and it goes through a winter. I didn't obsess about compaction too much for my road because the house was a year or two away when I started. I just let mother nature settle the soil, and what a fine job she does if given the time. Lastly make sure the road surface is elevated and sloped. There must be good drainage at all points, if water is allowed to settle on the road or percolate up from underneath, then it'll get soft on you when it rains or stays wet in the winter.

good luck

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old

01-12-2006 08:07:52




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
Well since I live not all that far from you and have worked for the state and other companys building road both state highways and private roads, any how. In your case you said going over a field, well just dump the gravel where you plam on putting the road, do it before the cement trucks come in. You want the road to be 4-6 inches higher then the ground on the sides. The cement trucks will pack the gravel in. Start with 2-4 inch base rock them go with dirty base and then 1-2 inch clean or creek gravel. My drive is a mile long and I maintain 2 miles of drive way and have done so for 25 years. Or in other words been there done that. If you ever drive hwy. 54 in and out of camdenton you will drive over some of my work.

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Dale(MO)

01-12-2006 06:34:13




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
Phil,
Take off the top 4"-6", track it up as best you can (helps to seal the ground), and base it with 2" rock to about an inch or so above the original grade. This time of year, 2" clean works pretty well, with the ground being a little softer, but I usually prefer 2" minus because it packs better - the fines in it help to seal the road, and it won"t drop and heave as badly as the clean rock. About the time that most of the outside work is done on the house, top it with 3"-4" of 1" minus, try to get a crown on the road. When you have moved in, if you want to top it with some white rock to make it pretty, I would use 1/2" clean - about 1/2"-1" deep.
After the base rock is first graded, don"t regrade it - let it go where it wants to go. If you find that mud is coming through it as it is driven on, I would fill those low places with 1" minus as needed. My experience in this part of the world is that if you regrade the original base, you disturb it too much, and it must settle and lock in again, causing soft spots and holes.
No matter what you do, it will be spongy until spring, but once it compacts, you"ll have a good road. Winter is a good time to put in a road, it can cost a little more, but the end results usually hold up a lot longer than one put in when it"s hot and dry.

Good luck,
Dale(MO)

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tomturkey

01-12-2006 06:12:27




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 Re: Road building in reply to Phil - MO, 01-12-2006 05:39:38  
1. Remove all vegetation and topsoil.
2. Compact that sub-grade
3. Place ground fabric or a geo-grid If budget allows
4. Place roadstone.
If after veg/topsoil removal cut is excessively deep. Soil without veg/humous can be used to raise the sb-grade elevation. Each 6-12 inch layer must be compacted. Sheepsfoot roller best, use what is available



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