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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure?

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JB OH

01-25-2006 10:16:54




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I posted a while back about my 1980 Ford 555 that was missing the hydraulic return line filter. Over the weekend, I replaced the OEM filter & housing with a new Zinga spin-on return line filter & housing that is rated at 40 GPM and 200 PSI max operating pressure. The filter has a built-in 25 psi bypass valve, and ports on the inlet side for a pressure gauge. I installed a 60psi "filter indicator gauge" idiot gauge in that port. This particular gauge may have been a waste of money.

Here's my question: What should the pressure be at the inlet of the filter? When I run the engine, the indicator gauge pegs to the max, meaning that I'm getting greater than 60 psi at the inlet of the filter. This may be normal for this hoe, but I don't know. The guys at NH said that they "thought" the OEM filter housing was designed for 38-42 GPM and had a 50 psi bypass on it, but they weren't sure of the operating pressure. I thought return lines ran at very low pressures, though, hence the typical 60 psi "filter change" gauge, where it indicates "service filter" at anything over 15 psi. The gauge port doesn't appear to be relaying a pressure differential, but merely the inlet pressure, itself.

I would like to know if anyone knows what the actual operating pressure in the return line should be for this hoe, just to make sure I'm running safely. (BTW - a refurb OEM filter housing was close to a grand, so that's why I went with the Zinga).

I'm going to post this in the Ford board also, in case anyone there may know as well.

Thanks,
JB

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Roy Suomi

01-26-2006 19:09:49




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JB OH, 01-25-2006 10:16:54  
Any idea what the filter density is ?? If the filter media is too fine , it could cause an overpressure problem...The density will be denoted as microns.. The larger micron number will be more porus than smaller micron...35 microns is a good number for hydraulic oils in general applications..This is the rating for hydraulic system filters on snowplow trucks.Also make sure there is a bypass valve for cold starting..

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JB OH

01-27-2006 07:11:07




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to Roy Suomi, 01-26-2006 19:09:49  
Roy: The filter is 10 micron. I ordered that size because it's what the NH guys said the OEM filter was. There is, indeed, a bypass valve, and it's set at 25 psi. So, this is what causes me to wonder if the pressure at the return filter on this model backhoe is higher, since I'm getting more that 60psi at the inlet of the filter housing. That's more than the 25psi bypass, so if the pressure was being caused by the filter density alone, I would think the bypass would kick in, and I'd have a pressure around 25psi at the gauge. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, though.)

There could also be some restriction near the reservoir that is causing the higher pressures, but it could also be designed to have higher pressures at the filter. After all, the OEM filter housing seemed to be pretty robust (it was a bowl with drop-in filter -- not a spin-on), but that could have simply been to protect it from rocks etc., since it's right in front of the rear wheel & prone to getting dinged.

I'd like to find the "typical" 555 operating pressure at the filter in order to determine whether I need to tear apart the return lines looking for a restriction, or if the high pressure is nothing to worry about. I'd like to filter the fluid (as opposed to the straight pipe that was in place before, but that's another story), and I also want to make sure I'm running safely and not overpressurizing a filter that's rated at 250psi operating pressure.

Thanks! JB

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JJS

01-31-2006 14:09:23




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JB OH, 01-27-2006 07:11:07  
How large a filter do you have? I have a service manual for the555/655 and cannot firn the return pressure. It does state a 25psi "Differental Relief ( I assume this is between the inlet, and outlet pressure of the filter)", and a 10 micron Filter. So the return pressure could be higher than 25psi. Also, if the filter is too small , or the return lines were replaced with smaller lines, that would increase the return pressure. HTH

Joe

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JB OH

02-01-2006 06:39:48




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JJS, 01-31-2006 14:09:23  
Joe,
Thanks for checking for me. I have the parts manual and the operator"s manual, and couldn"t find the info you provided. Apparently, the service manual is the one I need now. Your info matches the filter setup that I have now. I have a 10 micron filter with a 25psi bypass, and I think the bypass is the same as the "differential relief" found in the service manual. The filter, itself, is a little over 5" in diameter by about 7 1/2" long. It seems to be about the same size as the OEM filter, from what I can tell by photos of other machines. The OEM hard-piped line coming out of the filter was replaced with a 1" flexible hydraulic line, where I think the ID is actually larger than the OEM line.

Thus, I have a head-scratcher. But, as you indicated, the return line pressure could still be higher than 25psi by design. I know that there is supposed to be some sort of screen/mesh filter on the inlet of the pump to screen out large chunks, but I wouldn"t think that filter would cause a return line pressure like I"m having.

Thanks for the help, and any more insight would be greatly appreciated!
JB

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JJS

02-02-2006 09:50:28




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JB OH, 02-01-2006 06:39:48  
My 655 has a 1"OD steel line out of the filter. The suction screen should not affect return pressure. It is there as you said to protect the pump. your system would be working slow if that was plugging. Thinking about it, 60 psi is not alot compared to the 2500psi+ that the pump is puting out. On top of going through the filter, the return oil is also going through the cooler. If you could check the pressure on the outlet side of the filter and it is close to 60psi., Then I would not be too concerned.That is, if your relief valve is plummed right. After rereading the manual and looking at the filter diagram it makes sense that the 25psi relief is the difference between the inlet pressure, and outlet pressure, of the filter.
so if the filter plugs the bypass opens. So I wouldn't think that 60psi is excessive. Note this is just my opinion "fwiw".

Hope I helped some

Joe

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JB OH

02-03-2006 06:55:27




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JJS, 02-02-2006 09:50:28  
Joe,
Thanks again for the input! Before you responded, I had called another NH dealer and spoke with a guy with 25+ years of experience there. Just like you stated, he said that the only thing downstream of the filter is the cooler, and that the hoe can generate 2700+ psi. He said that he never checked the pressure, but that it is possible that the pressure could get greater than 60psi. How much, he didn"t know. But, your statements seem to match, so I may have nothing to worry about.

I also told him that the previous owner had plugged and subsequently crushed the pump inlet filter screen in the reservoir. The previous owner replaced it and made the appropriate repairs, however, the NH guy told me that the cooler could have gotten gummed up from packings(?) when the screen got crushed. He said that it"s possible that the cooler is causing the restriction, and that it may be good to "boil" it at a radiator shop to remove any gunk. He also said that the high pressure would subside after the fluid warms up (it was about 20-30F when I got the high pressures), but that it would also increase at higher RPM (I had the 60+psi at idle, and never revved it up). Makes sense to me.

I know that the relief valve is properly installed, since it"s integral to the filter housing, and the flow direction on the housing is correct. I think my next step is to check the actual pressure (as opposed to the idiot gauge I have now), and see what I get. I think that if it"s anywhere under 200psi, I"m not going to worry about it. Otherwise, I think a cooler cleaning may be in order.

Thanks,
JB

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JJS

02-03-2006 16:51:16




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JB OH, 02-03-2006 06:55:27  
Good luck with you machine. I went out and looked at mine. and there is a drain plug on the filter.
I will see about putting a guage on there this next week and see what pressure my mmachine runs.
I will let you know what I get.But I don't think you shaoul have any problems with yours.


Joe



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jb oh

03-13-2006 07:04:46




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JJS, 02-03-2006 16:51:16  
I put a 160psi gauge on the filter, and it was reading around 100-120 psi at idle. This still seems high, but I'm not sure.

I worked the hoe for a half hour (sometimes at higher engine RPM), and when I checked the gauge with the engine stopped, it stayed at 40psi, indicating that I may have oversprung the needle, and had a pressure higher than around 200psi.

At least it seems to be lower than the max psi for the spin-on filter, but I'd still like to know if my pressures are normal.

JB

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JB OH

02-06-2006 06:54:58




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 Re: Proper 555 return line hydraulic pressure? in reply to JJS, 02-03-2006 16:51:16  
Thanks so much, Joe! I appreciate it!
JB



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