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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber?

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jdemaris

02-17-2006 11:14:55




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I just pulled the steering clutches out of my Allis HD4, and one side has the traditional fibers and steels, but the other side has has all steel. I suppose the metal plates that are taking the place of the fibers have some sort of friction coating - it's kind of hard to tell. For years, when I worked for several Deere dealers, we thought about trying the metal disks that Deere offered as a "heavy duty" option for 350s and 450s. But, they were too expensive, even in the 60s and 70s, so we never tried them. Has anybody else? I'm wondering if they are less apt to get stuck since they've won't absorb moisture or oil like the fiber clutch disks do. I'm also wondering where these disks in my Allis came from. My Allis parts book shows two different part numbers but does not indicate what material the disks are. One more thing. On one side, there is an extra steel and disk as compared to the other. It appears there has been some machining done to make room for the extras. Was this a common practice? One side has five fiber disks and 4 steel plates, and the other side has four (metallic) disk and three steel plates - and that is the proper number as shown in the book. The metallic plates are exactly the same thickness as the fibers.

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R-cubed

02-19-2006 09:39:08




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 Re: Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber? in reply to jdemaris, 02-17-2006 11:14:55  
Are these metal disks just steel against steel? If so seems like they should run wet in oil to keep from scoring. Or are the some kind of metalic/ceramic?



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jdemaris

02-20-2006 05:42:50




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 Re: Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber? in reply to R-cubed, 02-19-2006 09:39:08  
Mine look the same. They appear to have something embedded into them but are smooth. I miked them and the thickness is correct and the same as the fiber disks. They measure about .143". Allis Chalmers gives specs. of .141" plus or minus .005". The place I found that sells new disks decribes them as "bi-metallic."



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Dale(MO)

02-20-2006 04:59:38




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 Re: Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber? in reply to R-cubed, 02-19-2006 09:39:08  
On mine, they appeared to have tiny "flakes" of something mixed or imbedded in them, could be ceramic or a bi-metal, not sure. Had a similar look to a metallic brake pad. When I cleaned them up for reassembly, they were as smooth as smooth could be, as were the regular steel plates. On the other side, the fibers had small grooves on both faces, like deep grooves in a record album. But, the steel plates on those were smooth.

Dale(MO)

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Dale(MO)

02-17-2006 16:57:53




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 Re: Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber? in reply to jdemaris, 02-17-2006 11:14:55  
I have the same thing on my HD3. I took mine apart to clean and adjust, and I found I had all metallic on one side. The tractor had set for about 5 or 6 years when I bought it, and both clutches were a little sticky, but I got lucky - neither was stuck tight. But looking back, the side with the steel discs loosened up within a few minutes of use, the fiber side probably an hour. I would have to agree that they were for a heavy duty application, but like you I have no idea where they could be had. I wouldn"t mind having a spare set around, just in case. If you find any information on them, keep us posted. I will keep looking and do the same.

Good luck,
Dale(MO)

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jdemaris

02-17-2006 17:37:28




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 Re: Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber? in reply to Dale(MO), 02-17-2006 16:57:53  
I did a little searching. An Allis Chalmers industrial dealer pulled some new disks off his shelf and they are metal. So, he did some checking and tells me that is all they sell now from Allis, or AGCO. $62 each ! So, I looked around some more and found a place that sells the fiber disks for $24 and the heavy-duty bi-metallic disks for $43 each - at
http://www.tpaktopc.net/achd3hd4strcltch.htm Now, I wondering what the deal is with one side of my crawler having and extra disk and an extra steel plate? The flywheel plate is thinner to allow them to fit, yet it's the same casting number as the other. So, I figure either someone machined it to squeeze in some extras, - or it was damaged and refinished and the extras were put in to take up the slack? It can't hurt to have an extra friction disk in there, but the plate/flywheel is thinner that it should be. The plate on one side is 1 1/16" thick, and the one with the extra disks is 5/8" thick - and both the same casting # 4865.

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Dale(MO)

02-17-2006 17:55:07




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 Re: Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber? in reply to jdemaris, 02-17-2006 17:37:28  
I guess if I was selling those steel plates, I would be impressed with the price. But, I guess if you REALLY want them...

As far as the difference in thickness, 7/16" is a LOT to take off. It must have been pretty rough, or the lathe hand doing it lost his mic. In any case, if it works - that's what counts.

Thanks for the info on the plates. I have an AGCO dealer in my hometown, but I think I will earmark that web site for future reference. My old highlift is in pretty good shape, but I know nothing lasts forever - especially if you need it.

Thanks,
Dale(MO)

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JCSinGA

02-17-2006 16:48:00




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 Re: Crawler steering clutches - metal vs fiber? in reply to jdemaris, 02-17-2006 11:14:55  
I would have to say the metallic drive discs are heavier duty and less apt to stick.
The ones I have saw look remarkebly like the discs used in a wet clutch system, but of course they tell you they are not.
I once bought a 350B JD loader with a hole in the block that had been sitting for quite a while and it sat at my place quite a while again till I got time to fix the engine, I was expecting stuck steering when I got it running and was not disappointed. It took mabye 15 minutes of gentle prodding til both sides came loose and worked great.
Anyway later on one side did get to slipping and I took it down found the HD metallic discs and broken pressure plate springs, replaced plate, brake band and bearings. The steering never gave another minutes trouble as long as I kept it.
I'm no help on the HD4, think I've worked on 1 in my lifetime and I've slept since then, But in my opinion the metallic discs are the way to go.

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