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Diesel

Kerosene mix

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Steven M

11-03-2001 21:10:09




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I have a International Drott skid shovel. Mid 50's I believe with a diesel motor.
serial number A1632
model 340k3

I want to use this well into december but I hear these diesel tractors are hard to start during the winter. It has a block heater, but someone suggested mixing kerosene in with the diesel fuel. Can anyone tell me the proper ratio of diesel to kerosene to mix up for winter use? thanks in advance.

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Wheatland47

11-06-2001 12:44:49




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
Why not just use #1 diesel fuel..... .



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Jon Bose

11-05-2001 10:28:06




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
I've seen repeated questions and answers relative to the sulphur question in Diesel fuel and am wondering if there's something definitive on the subject of whether sulphur really does act as a lubricant in the injection system or if this is another "urban legend". If it is a lubricant, how does it work? Seems like engine manufacturers have always wanted low S in fuel because of the bad stuff formed in combustion being bad for oil, metal, engine parts in general.
Has anyone seen anything more on this?

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Mike

11-05-2001 18:34:30




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 Re: Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Jon Bose, 11-05-2001 10:28:06  
About fifteen years ago (more or less) the EPA wanted to get rid of lead in all fuels diesel and gas. In order to have some type of lubricant in the fuel they added sulpher. The sulpherized fuel was and is alot drier and as a result alot harder on everything it comes in contact with. After the fuel was, lets say reprogramed they had to come up with a new formula for the rubber in the seals this being done all was good in the world again. I did hear rumbling's in the fuel world that they are now going to take the sulpher out of the fuels. So we will just have to wait and see what they come up with now to do the lubrication and what types of problems it will cause.

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ferrell freeman

11-05-2001 05:21:59




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
The #1 diesel fuel will be what you need along with Bio guard to keep down fungis in your fuel tank . Kerosene will be more costly and wil not give you the luberication the injection pump also could burn at a hotter temperature and cause damage if the engine has not been over haul.



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ferrell freeman

11-05-2001 05:21:51




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
The #1 diesel fuel will be what you need along with Bio guard to keep down fungis in your fuel tank . Kerosene will be more costly and wil not give you the luberication the injection pump also could burn at a hotter temperature and cause damage if the engine has not been over haul.



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henry schade

11-04-2001 21:23:33




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
NEVER USE KEROSENE IN A DIESEL ENGINE!!!!! !

Kerosene won`t have adiquit lubricating
properties to lube the injection pump.After
a short period of time the pump will be destroyed. over the years we have had several
tractors in our shop where they put kerosene
in the tank only to learn an exspensive lesson.



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Mike

11-04-2001 18:54:24




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
Steven; Down to 20 degrees F. straight no.2 fuel is fine. After the air temp dips below this no.2 will start to wax or gel, this is why your fuel distributor will mix or blend no.1 fuel with the no.2 the colder it gets the more no.1 is added. Adding or blending of the fuel does little or nothing in the way of making the motor start it meerly makes it possible for the fuel to flow through the filters in order to keep it running once it fires. As the rest have already explained keep your batteries peaked and keep the block heater working. And as far as the block heater not being able to warm the motor once it has throughly cooled. Unless the heater is far to small for the job it will bring the temp back up if you fail to plug it in directly after shutting the machine down. I made a habit of not pluging the heater in until the evening before I need the machine. This saves wear and tear on the heater and also saves on the electric bill. If you fuel this machine out of your own bulk storage and it has not been blended +20 to 0 70 percent no.2 and 30 percent no.1 from 0 to -20 below a 50/50 mix will work after that if you still dont think its to cold to be outside working then it would be my suggestion to go 100 percent no.1 fuel.

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Greg D.

11-04-2001 17:50:43




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
When I was foolish enough to live in the below zero climates the block heater is essential. However the heater wasn`t intended to heat up an ice cold block. It should be plugged in after running and it will then maintain a temperature in the system to keep a temperature level to allow easier startup. As far as the red off road fuel versus the on road fuel. Same fuel except for the red dye. So running one over the other won`t give you an advantage. Along with the block heater you may want to try a dipstick heater to allow the oil to stay at a higher temp than ambient. Just a few ides from a desert rat!!!!! !

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Chris Briggs_Man

11-05-2001 05:45:37




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 Re: Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Greg D., 11-04-2001 17:50:43  
I see this often that Red fuel is the same as road fuel only the dye, This Does not hold true in WV Red offroad/heating oil is the same stuff diesel fuel was b4 they started this lowsulpher stuff, Get a Can of it here compare it to on road fuel and you can Smell See and feel the diffrence, Plus run it in a Engine and the exhaust smells diffrent so in wv their not the same fuel

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jeff pack

11-06-2001 11:44:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Chris Briggs_Man, 11-05-2001 05:45:37  
My Red Fuel specifically says high sulphur
on the barrel.



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Jamie

11-04-2001 17:10:17




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
Steven...I would agree with Briggs. Those of us in the great white north (Canada), haven't run into the kinda problems that Briggs has cause our fuel still has a lotta suphur in it. I have however had a fair amount of cold weather diesel experience, as Briggs said a working block heater and good batteries will get anything going no matter how cold it is. I have even built fires under oil pans or used a tiger torch in order to get the engine oil a lttle warm so that it turns over faster. Remember diesel engines require compression to make combustion happen, so the faster it turns over the more likely it is to start. Forget about adding kerosene to your fuel, folks who where ill informed used to do this because they thought that it would make cold starting easier, however what happens is the kerosene ignites at a lower temprature and causes pre-ignition (you may not hear it) and can cause piston, connecting rod and/or bearing damage. DON'T do it !!!!! What I would suggest however is a fuel system additive that lubricates, but more importantly helps to prevent wax crystals from forming when the tempratures are very cold. I have startes vehicles and equipment as cold as -40f with little difficulty as long as I could get the engine a little warm and could make it turn over fast enough. Any more questions let me know.

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Briggs_Man

11-04-2001 16:20:57




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 Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-03-2001 21:10:09  
With this new Road low sulpher Diesel fuel i wouldnt suggest even running it in that old style, None the less mixing Kero w/it, Run The red off road fuel in it, As for starting up in winter you know i hear this complaint and have never truley seen a Diesel engine i could never get started in winter unless some one had it hooked on ether, if the block heater works it should start, If it would have a preheat in the intake and it work's it should start, 9 times out of 10 the diesel's folks complain that has been here , That say wont start has had batterys that was made whene moby dick was a minnow, or they just did not even try to crank it over long enough,

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Steven M

11-04-2001 16:28:50




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 Re: Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Briggs_Man, 11-04-2001 16:20:57  
Thanks for your reply but I didn't quite pick up on what you meant with the diesel fuel. I can't go to a gas station and buy diesel fuel from there? If I can't, where can I get it or is there a additive I can put in it? Truthfully I haven't had the opportunity to start it in the winter yet but I was told it would be hard. I was just trying to think ahead.



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Briggs_Man

11-04-2001 16:38:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steven M, 11-04-2001 16:28:50  
Steve No problemo on thinking ahead,
Low sulpher diesel at the stations is rough on older pumps and seal's Plus injector's, If thats all you have close by i would use additives, to add lubircant to the diesel, Whene the Epa and Great tree huggers lol thought the world could stand less sulpher in the diesel fuel the process in which takes the sulpher out, took alot of lube from the diesel fuel, which 99% of Injector pumps are lubed by the fuel, Well i have heard and seen Plenty of Pumps having to have new seals put in, and some pumps went haywire, i think some pumps were getting bad and the dryer fuel helped em die sonner but it caused lots of headaches, Try Some Fuel additive with lub adders in it or power sterring fluid mix in the fuel any thing that can help lube these older pumps and injectors help, 1 qt power steering fluid with 20 gallon of fuel seems to work wonder's, Just trying to save some maybe unknown headaches further down the road,

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Steve M

11-04-2001 19:09:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Briggs_Man, 11-04-2001 16:38:18  
Thanks for all the great advice guys. This is my first Diesel tractor. It belonged to my now dead grandfather and I'd hate to run it into the ground because I use the wrong fuel etc. Thanks for all the tips, they will go to good use.



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Glen Rusling

11-04-2001 19:51:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel - Kerosene mix in reply to Steve M, 11-04-2001 19:09:55  
Use a diesel fuel rated for cold weather (here in Canada it is No. 2, but it seems to be No.1 in the U.S.). Use an additive made for lubricating the injection pump (any truck stop or Diesel Injection repair shop will have some). Plug in the block heater for 4 - 8 hrs, contrary to what another post has said they will heat the block adequately for starting. The colder it is, the longer the period has to be. I use Shell Rotella T 0W-40 synthetic oil in my diesels (Ford powerstroke, John Deere 4430, International DT466). This allows oil to circulate immediately and get the turbo lubricated no matter how cold it is. Don't use this oil in a Detroit Diesel 2-stroke. If you can't use an oil like this maybe get a magnetic oil pan heater. This will warm up the oil to prevent premature engine wear.

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