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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

IH diesels that start on gasoline

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Eric Rylander

04-19-2006 18:08:32




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Does anyone have any site with pictures and a description of the IH engines used in tractors such as the MTA Diesel and the TD series crawlers that used a separate manifold with a carburettor and a spark ignition to start and then switched over once warm to diesel from an injector pump?

I work with some guys who kept saying "Yeah, it"s a pony engine" and I told them no, that is a different system, old Cats and John Deere diesels used that.

Anyway, I have been to the King"s site and though he has pics of the gas side of a TD crawler the pic of the diesel side is of a different engine painted a different color and they just won"t believe me. What I am looking for is some sort of pics of each side of the engine and a tech description for these non believers who know nothing of old iron.

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old

04-20-2006 15:20:18




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to Eric Rylander, 04-19-2006 18:08:32  
If you haven't found out enough info yet drop me an e-mail and I'll send you a couple pages from an owners manual for a TD-6 I'm sure I can find the page that explains how they worked



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King of Obsolete

04-20-2006 05:23:19




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to Eric Rylander, 04-19-2006 18:08:32  
i have added more to my website to help people work on these cats.

Link

thansk



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seann

04-19-2006 20:22:45




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to Eric Rylander, 04-19-2006 18:08:32  
As far as I know, there's three primary reasons IH developed the gas switchover design back in the day as a method to start the old diesels:

1. Batteries and electrical starting systems were relatively weak back then (including the hand starters Bob speaks of).

2. Diesels have much higher compression ratios than normal gas engines and are therefore much harder to turn over.

3. In the cold, diesels can be much more difficult to start, especially when compounded with cold batteries and mollasses like oil.

The gas starting method made a diesel as easy to start as a regular gasoline engine. Plus, once you warmed it up for a minute or two, the coolant, oil and combustion chambers are preheated so just flip the switch and you're going on diesel. A pretty good system compared to the pony start stuff of that time in my opinion. Although some sing the praises of pony starts too because apparently they can greatly reduce the wear that occurs on big diesels during cold starts (with zero oil pressure).

Go to the redpower site referenced below to see a bunch of guys running these machines. Someone will post a pic pronto for you, and set your friends straight too if need be.

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J Schwiebert

04-20-2006 04:38:40




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to seann, 04-19-2006 20:22:45  
There was an article in Implement and Tractor magazine maybe 40 years ago that told when IH was working on some prototype diesel tractors in the late 20's or early 30's and they had them on there test farm. It was the fall of the year and they shut them off for the weekend. On Monday morning due to the weather having turned cooler they had starting problems. That was when they had to punt and rethink think how they wanted to start them. I am not that familiar with the PD-40 engine which was before the models you are discussing but they had a mechanism on the first ones that after they started on gas they switched over to diesel automatically.

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seann

04-19-2006 20:25:24




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to seann, 04-19-2006 20:22:45  
Oops, forgot the redpower link, see below.



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Bob/Ont

04-19-2006 18:40:20




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to Eric Rylander, 04-19-2006 18:08:32  
Eric, the system was developed so the engine could be cranked by hand to start. There are an extra set of valves that open on low compression gasoline operation and the spark plug is in the chamber they connect to the cylinder. On diesel operation the valve closes off that chamber and it runs like any other precombustion chamber diesel engine. The big 1000 cu in TD24 engine can start direct on diesel or use gasoline start in cold weather.
Later Bob

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Russ73

04-19-2006 20:08:59




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to Bob/Ont, 04-19-2006 18:40:20  
For info on this starting system go to>Link
There>Link are a lot of pix on that site that can convince non-believers. I don't believe a TD24 will start directly on diesel.



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Frank Workman

11-26-2006 17:33:10




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to Russ73, 04-19-2006 20:08:59  
I own a IH TD 24 which has 1075 hrs. on it and it is in very good shape. It starts on gas when it cool to warm up and then switches to diesel.
At about 70 degrees F it will start on diesel.
I start it once a month.



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Bob/Ont

04-20-2006 05:21:12




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 Re: IH diesels that start on gasoline in reply to Russ73, 04-19-2006 20:08:59  
I didn't think so either Russ untill I hit the starter with it on high compression and it turned over and started.
Later Bob



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