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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

How do I do it?

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ETD66SS

06-06-2006 07:35:21




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I have my D6C, and will be ready to start pushing out my first pond in about 1 month.

The first pond I will do is simply a 140 ft long x 100 ft wide oval, 3:1 slope and 17 ft deep.

The dirt needs to be pushed to one side along the length.

How do I do this with my D6C?

The soil is 7.5 ft of sandy loam, then 2 ft of red clay, then 3 ft of gray clay, then I hit glacial till after that. (mixed red & gray clay, some rock)

What is the procedure of cutting to push out an oval, then line it with clay?

I have not found any useful excavation books to help me...

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Joe in Ne

09-11-2006 16:35:02




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
Did you ever get your Pond Done?



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rob nickel

06-25-2006 15:39:36




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
Good thing you've got backhoes and trucks to help you in this endevor. Without them I don't know if it would be worth trying to do a project that size? Especially not with only an older small dozer as there's just too much material that has to be moved. Just remember to keep those machines sitting as level as possible, but then you already knew this, and don't need me to tell you how to run equipment I'm sure.

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ETD66SS

06-09-2006 03:55:59




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
third party image

I did some calculations last night.



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brian 1

06-08-2006 20:04:08




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
Moving the Earth by Nichols is a great excavation reference book.



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ETD66SS

06-09-2006 03:00:10




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to brian 1, 06-08-2006 20:04:08  
Yes, thanks.

I have the 4th edition of that book, not the 5th...

Bought it on Amazon and thought I was getting the 5th edition, not sure how much better the 5th is...



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ETD66SS

06-07-2006 05:58:07




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 I found some info in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
I found a good resource for pond building if anyone else needds it



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Uncle

06-06-2006 18:49:22




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
I would go to www.pondboss.com They have alot of info in a format like this site.
Brian



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jml755

06-06-2006 17:16:04




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
I got an old Ford 755 TLB last year to work on some raw acreage I bought (my "retirement" home). Parked it in an area that "looked" high and dry. First time I tried to move it, I found out how easy it was to "bury" a 9 ton earthmoving machine. (Learned a lot about the machine getting it unstuck,though). The 1st task: put in a 600 foot driveway. Tried "scraping" away 1 foot of topsoil to put down the crushed concrete. Awfully slow (few inches at a time). Found out the fastest way was to dig with the backhoe and then use the loader bucket to scrape for cleanup and dirt relocation. If I were you, I would just do most of the work by digging and hauling, as you indicate. It probably won't be pretty, but then I'd use the D6 for contouring the sides and bottom as you go. I think you'll learn pretty quick how to make it work efficiently for you. I think your biggest problem might be keeping the bottom of the hole dry enough to work in, if this is a "part time" project. After all, it is a "pond". You say 1/4 acre is the SMALL one? How big is the BIG one? Good luck. I'll watch your website for updates.

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seann

06-06-2006 14:20:45




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
Sounds like a fun a project ETD, although lots of work. The only thing I have to offer is that you should be really, really, REALLY careful about NOT getting that nice D6 stuck in the mud. I learned the hard way about getting stuck on a crawler. It can happen in a seemingly sudden way, and creep up on you. One minute you're maneuvering through some wet stuff and getting along ok. And then before you really fully realize what type of situation you're getting into, you struggle a little here 'n there, and then...STUCK! And when you stick a 10+ ton machine up to it's belly in some muck, especially down in some pit like a pond....especially if a rain is coming...BIG PROBLEM!

Not to scare you or discourage you or anything. I guess the thing that got me the most, is that there are a lot of wet conditions where I could move around and work well in - and never get stuck. This builds your confidence, and can lull you into a false sense of security. But as you move around and perform different tasks in different locations, you can unknowingly transition into different soils without fully realizing just how different they are. And then with a moment's inattention in a just a few seconds, you're like a Mastadon in a tar pit - you ain't gettin' out!

So what I've learned is to keep things as dry as possible. I'd keep a motorized pump around and keep the pit drained and pumped out at all times, don't let water sit in there. And grade the surrounding area to facilitate drainage away from the areas you need to work in. Simply don't even try to work if it's too wet, and probe the suspect areas you're going into very gingerly at first to test their ability to support the weight of the machine. Avoid turning and following in your same tracks over and over. Watch out on sideslopes or in situations where one track can get shifted down into a rut or ditch or off the side of a road/path. This will shift more weight to one side and off another and make it more likely for that side to sink into the mud and cause the belly to contact the ground. And my machine always seems to back out of messes much better than it ever would go forward in them. My crawler is a loader (which is heavier than a similar class dozer), but I believe most front engined crawlers are similar in this sense. If you're just into a mudhole and it's 50/50 to go forward through it or back out, from my experience backing out works better.

Not trying to freak you out, but you do NOT want to bury that beautiful D6. Have fun!

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ETD66SS

06-06-2006 18:22:06




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to seann, 06-06-2006 14:20:45  
Yep, I almost got it stuck the second day I used it.

Had muck over top of one of the tracks, don't know how I got out...

I only plan to dig in the dry mid-summer up here. Also, I'm hoping the small pond will only take me 1 week...

To the guy who asked about the big pond, it will be about 1 acre...



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the tractor vet

06-06-2006 09:32:39




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
Well as for me first i would lay out the out line and strip all top soil and tree roots and push them as far away as i could then it would be a matter of getting the dirt moved to the shape that was needed and knowing what the ground conduition is as ya sure as heck don't want to stick it in soft ground and since ya don't have a get me out of trouble winch on the back of it . That size pond should not be that big of a job . But running a dozer and getting max output from the machine comes with experance and also work safe .

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JDknut

06-06-2006 09:09:45




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
Nichols has a very good book out called "The Workbook of Excavation" or something like that, You can find it on Amazon.com. This book is a real tome, but a trove of good info. Also Horace Church "Excavation Handbook" is very good. I agree with the others, tho, this is a big project for that tractor, unless you are alos doing it as a learning experience, not in a hurry, etc. Good luck.



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ETD66SS

06-06-2006 10:07:58




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to JDknut, 06-06-2006 09:09:45  
Yes, the first pond is a learning experience, that's why I'm stating with the 1/4 acre pond...

I need to learn how to be efficient on my D6C, how to go about the actual excavation part.

And, I have been looking into a Winch for it...

Problem is, when ppl say "scrape off the topsoil first" Well, my topsoil is 7.5 ft deep, so not sure what they mean by that...



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Frankie P

06-06-2006 08:07:44




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 07:35:21  
I would be looking for a scraper,or a big loader,or hire it done.You are looking at moving around 12000 cu yds of dirt by the time you push it out to seperate locations,shape it up and then push a fair amount of it back to line the pond, then waste the leftovers and dress it all up.You are asking alot out of an old tractor,not to mention the fuel,maintenance and repairs.You aren't going to move alot of dirt in a day with an LGP tractor.

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ETD66SS

06-06-2006 08:20:36




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to Frankie P, 06-06-2006 08:07:44  
Thanks, but I'm looking for some pointers on how I use my D6C to dig a small oval pond as described.

I'll use it in conjunction with my Ford 575D and my Dump Truck.

I just need to know how to start the cutting, the procedures, etc...

By my calculations this 1/4 acre pond will yield about 1500 yards of top soil, and 1500 yards of clay. Roughly.

I need the topsoil for landscaping, and clay for various driveways & roads...

I'm not looking to hire anything out...

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ETD66SS

06-06-2006 08:27:17




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 08:20:36  
Actually, about 1500 yards of topsoil and about 750 yards of clay.

I'll move the dirt with my backhoe & dump truck, not push it all over the lot with the dozer...



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RodInNS

06-08-2006 18:11:16




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to ETD66SS, 06-06-2006 08:27:17  
I think I'd set the perimiter of the final size, and then allow a bit more for the clay liner, if you're going to do that. You'll have to remove more top soil to make allowance for the liner. I guess the first thing I would look at is the ground type. If you've got wet ground, or ground that has potential to make water, you want that pond dug, formed, lined and finished as quickly as possible, or it's not going to be finished. If water is a problem, I'd push the topsoil out to one side with the 6, and the clay out the other side or an end, and just pile everything up. Get the hole finished. Then you can use the truck and hoe later to do your landscaping. Otherwise, if you've got time, and water isn't a problem, just dig the topsoil out with the hoe, and load it right in the truck.... Around here, if we're digging, we get it done as quickly as possible. I often have a trash pump on hand too.... Do watch out for that glacial till, and even the clay when that starts getting wet. A good anchoring is often only a turn of the tracks away. If you do get stuck, just get somebody on the 6, and take the hoe, set the outriggers down good, and drag her out with the hoe. You'll want a good chain or cable for that...
Timewise, I'd think 2-3 days would be time enough to dig that size hole with that machine. It depends on the digging. I've put a hole in the ground, probably a little less than half that size in about a day. That said, I hit glacial till after about 4-5 feet, and then it got to be hard going. I was on a D4H, which is near the 6c in tonnage, but short on power. Just keep the pushes short, and the slopes manageable.

Rod

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ETD66SS

06-08-2006 18:39:11




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 Re: How do I do it? in reply to RodInNS, 06-08-2006 18:11:16  
Thanks for the advice.

I'm told the water table in my area varies 50" from spring to summer.

We are having another dry srping so far, so I hope summer will be the same.

Last summer when I dug a test hole with my backhoe, I did not hit ground water until I was 15 ft down.

I'm hoping that's a similar case this year.

In any event, I'm going to pick a week to take off this summer, and try like hell to get this pond done in that time.

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