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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/dozer

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Wayne02

06-26-2006 11:16:58




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The left side hydraulic track tensioner/adjuster is "broken" on the machine I'm looking at purchasing. The machine is not local to me right now (although I've seen it in person a couple times), and I'm working on trying to define "broken" more closely. I think it is not just a matter of it leaking and not holding pressure, I think one of the structural parts of the adjuster maybe fubar somehow. Anyway, I'm trying to get more info.

Been looking online for replacement adjusters and see that broken tractor has the complete adjuster listed for $400, the yoke, the rod, and the seal kit can apparently be purchased separately as well. I have not called to confirm they have them in stock yet.

The JD parts site lists two adjusters, the original, and the "replacement". The drawing for the "replacement" shows the same basic part with some differences. Is this an improved part?

In addition, I see that you can buy each component of the adjuster from JD, but don't see that the entire adjuster assembly is for sale from JD?

Finally, it has been suggested to me that it might be better to manufacture a new manual adjuster, and just forget the grease/hydraulic ones. Something that would use threaded rod to keep tension. We have the capability to manufacture just about anything along these lines.

Seems like it would be nice not to have to mess with the grease all the time. On the other hand I can see where adjusting a manual type thing would be a PIA as well (particularly when it is jambed with dirt). This would be on a occasional use dozer for around the farm.

What do you think? Cough up the money for a replacement hydraulic tensioner, or make a manual one?

Thanks
Wayne

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cory m

06-26-2006 13:15:52




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to Wayne02, 06-26-2006 11:16:58  
I rebuilt mine about a year ago and havent had any trouble. I bored and sleaved the ajuster, my piston was not very bad but that could be fixed to, I think it was just a pipe with a plug welded in the end. I ordered a length of heavy wall pipe from Mcmaster carr and turned it to fit. The adjuster will have the same tolorance as any other hydralic cylinder. Just make sure the bore is smooth or it will wear your seal out quickly.

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Wayne02

06-26-2006 13:25:44




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to cory m, 06-26-2006 13:15:52  
Cory,

Did you use the standard seal kit from JD when you did your repair?



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jdemaris

06-27-2006 14:02:50




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to Wayne02, 06-26-2006 13:25:44  
I don't know what machine Cory has - but the rubber quad-ring was NOT standard on a 450C- unless possibly in the very first ones. But- we sold Bs and Cs new and I never saw a quad-ring in any C. The soft rubber quad-ring was Deere's second attempt on improving the track-adjuster and was used in the B series. The C series had the hard neoprene one-lipped directional seal as standard equipment. When they first came out - with the Cs, they worked so well - we retrofitted them into all the older crawlers. It saved many worn adjusters that otherwise would have been thrown out. I guess it's possible Cory is referring to some new type of quad-ring I haven't seen - but it did not exist when I left Deere in 1991. As far as what Cory did - it sounds fine. I buy a lot of my steel parts from McMaster, MSC or Enco and machine my own parts. However - the Deere adjuster does NOT work exactly as a conventional hydraulic cylinder. First, there is very little fore-and-aft movement involved, and second - many of the older seals Deere used - including quad-rings - are NOT self engergizing. The third seal - the was standard with the C series - IS self energizing and takes up for lots of wear. Pressure makes it seal somewhat like pressure makes a Chevron V-stack seal in a conventional cylinder. So, in most cases, the cylinder bore can be VERY worn and it will still hold with the third series seal, but will NOT with the older two versions. One exception, however. If your tracks are very worn - and the adjuster is run with the piston pumped all the way out - it will leak or break real fast. Even a new one will break that way. Best fix the tracks by turning the old pins and bushings, or put in new, or cheat and remove one link from the track chain.
In regard to the image-links you posted of the original and the "updated" adjusters - I can see several differences in the heavy parts - but cannot tell if the seals are different or not. I can't tell without part numbers. Also, very often updated parts are not necessarily improved parts. Sometimes that are simply parts made for newer machines that Deere prefers you to use as a replacement - this cuts down their inventory.

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cory m

06-27-2006 08:09:04




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to Wayne02, 06-26-2006 13:25:44  
Yes I used the standard rubber quad ring once it was done. Has held through about 100 hours use from time of repair. Cory



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jdemaris

06-26-2006 11:43:04




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to Wayne02, 06-26-2006 11:16:58  
I've got several Allis Chalmers and Cletrac dozers with threaded rod and nut track adjusters. I wish they were hydraulic like a Deere instead. The plus side is - they never creep down and get loose - but the bad side is -the threads take a beating with dirt, rocks, rust, etc. I will say though, that they are cheap to fix. I just bought some 1 1/2" B-7 hardened threaded rod to fix my HD6 and it cost around $35 for a four foot piece. With the Deere stuff - the first and second style track adjusters were pretty bad and had many problems with leak down. They were used in 1010s, 350s, 450s etc. First ones were simple o-rings, then a soft quad ring. Neither could handle any wear in the adjuster cylinder. Then Deere came up with a new lipped neoprene seal that worked very well. I'm not sure it's neoprene - but it's kind of clear and harder than H*ll. In our shop, we updated many of the older machines by cutting the seal-groove a little wider in the older adjusters, and then intalling the new seal. You mention another new one? I'm not aware of it - but I guess, why would I? Haven't worked for a Deere dealer since 91. But - a few months ago I bought a few new 350C style neoprene lipped seals to fix my neighbor's old 350 and my 1010. They were still the same as when the 350Cs first came out.

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Wayne02

06-26-2006 13:41:55




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to jdemaris, 06-26-2006 11:43:04  
This is the adjuster (p# T56619) listed on JD's site. I think maybe it was the original design or something.
Link

This is adjuster (p# TP28759) is listed below the above on the parts list and is labeled "replacement adjuster".
http://waynef.smugmug.com/photos/77936804-M.jpg



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srs_mn

06-26-2006 11:21:42




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to Wayne02, 06-26-2006 11:16:58  
Fix or replace the hydraulic adjuster - trust me, you won't like a manual adjuster... it's like going back to a Swede saw after you've used a chain saw.
srs/MN



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Tom in Central Pa

06-26-2006 15:17:09




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 Re: Bum track tensioner on 1975 JD450C crawler/doz in reply to srs_mn, 06-26-2006 11:21:42  
My memory is fuzzy on this, but as I remember some models had a bolt& locknut with a steel ball under it. Some guys would remove the fitting to release the adjuster, some the bolt and ball. It was common for someone to lose the steel ball, and the grease would leak out. It may be as simple as that.



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