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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

John Deere 1010 Crawler Antifreeze in Oil

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Dave Richards

08-11-2006 22:14:51




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Rebuilt engine couple of summers ago. Everything new except for cylinder liners. Changed oil and noticed antifreeze in filter. Put new oil in but did not run it since. Have head off now because I was hoping it was head gasket. I was vacuuming the top of the piston off and noticed movement of the antifreeze in the ports on the block. Thinking it maybe the gaskets on the bottom of the liners, I pulled the drain plug on the oil pan and got a fair bit of antifreeze. Before taking the head off I just drained antifreeze from the bottom of the radiator. Noticed when I removed the head some antifreeze did spill over but don't think much. What I believe I am seeing when vacuuming top of pistons is antifreeze coming up around side of pistons on back 2 cylinders, more so the back one. Could I have got a fair bit of antifreeze into the oil when I loosened the head? If I pull the liners do I have to remove the engine or can I do it in place. When it was rebuilt the liner was not removed because the fellow told me it looked in good shape and sometimes when you take them out they are hard to keep from leaking. Any help will be greatly apppreciated.

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jdemaris

08-12-2006 05:21:45




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 Re: John Deere 1010 Crawler Antifreeze in Oil in reply to Dave Richards, 08-11-2006 22:14:51  
You were given some bad advice. 1010s, 2010s, and all the early 350s, 450s, etc. have a single o-ring per sleeve for sealing. With a 1010, the seals often go bad before the engine wears out - and to take the head off and NOT replace the sleeve-seals - does NOT make much sense. 350s and 450s benefitted from updated repair kits to install three seals per sleeve. But, not the 1010 or 2010. Subsequently, the condition of the single seal is critical. In regard to replacement - it can be done with the engine in place. In regard to finding exactly where the leak is - just pull the oil-pan off and look at the crankshaft and main bearing webs. You'll probably see marks where coolant has been leaking from a sleeve onto the crank. To fix, pull the head, pull the oil-pan, unhook the rods and pull the pistons/rods out. Then, carefull pull the sleeve-deck out. The four sleeves are held together by a steel plate - and do not come out individually - thus the name "sleeve deck.". If you break it, Deere still has new ones - but they're a little pricey.

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Dave Richards

08-12-2006 08:23:57




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 Re: John Deere 1010 Crawler Antifreeze in Oil in reply to jdemaris, 08-12-2006 05:21:45  
Thank you very much. I am pulling the oil pan off this morning. I was concerned with being able to get at the sleeve deck to tap it with a block of wood with the crank in place because it does not appear to be easy to pry up from the top like the manual says. Do I have to replace the rings again after I pull the pistons out? The manual says to clean everything out with steam or a cleaner, I do not have steam so do I just dump (varsol) down all the ports and let it flush out the bottom? Also the manual says to coat both sides of the gasket (between block and sleeve deck)with aluminum paint or similar compound on the right rear corner of the block. I am using Permatex No.3 Sealing Compound on the head gasket as recommended with this work instead on aluminum paint? With the antifreeze probably have gotten everywhere could it have taken out any other bearing with such little hours on it? I was using a high quality antifreeze. When I put the head back on the manual says to re-torque after 45 min. to 1 hour. In order to re-torque I have to remove the water manifold to get at the head bolts, is this necessary? If it is do I back off all the head bolts and re-torque from zero again?

I know the deck is pricy,(around $1100 CAD) I had it ordered 2 years ago before getting this advice. When it was honed out they would have checked for cracks do you think? The reason I ask is because I am being told from some that if there is cracks anywhere (head, liner, block) they are hard to see and that I can get some type of spray on crack detector.

One thing I didn't mention is it is a gas engine.

Thank you for the quick response. Sure appreciate the positive feedback. I used this forum when I rebuilt the final drives and steering clutch and your knowledge is a whole lot of assurance.

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jdemaris

08-12-2006 13:19:49




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 Re: John Deere 1010 Crawler Antifreeze in Oil in reply to Dave Richards, 08-12-2006 08:23:57  
I'll answer best I can - for what it's worth.

#1 - The sleeve deck is often stuck - in the bottom because or rust and sludge, and on top because of the gasket between the deck-plate and the engine block. Just pry carefully and evenly and also try to push from the bottom against the sleeves. A piece of wood works well - like a hammer handle or something. A couple of bottle-jacks putting pressure from the bottom works well while you carefully pry from the top. I've seen many sleeve-decks get cracked when getting removed and pried on.

#2 - In regard to new rings - I wouldn't reinstall the old rings because you'll never get them exactly in the same place again - and the wear patterns won't match. Also, check the ring side clearance in the top piston grooves. If it's too much, have the pistons regrooved and install Hastings repair shims. If you really don't want to spend the money for rings, and choose to put the old ones back in - it will run okay - but will not seal as well as it did before.

#3 In regard to the manual's advice as it relates to steam-cleaning, aluminum paint, etc. - don't worry about it. Any good gasket sealer is fine, and steam-cleaning is not necessary. But, with the sleeve deck out, make sure the pockets in the block where the sleeve o-rings fit, are clean. Some people choose to use Permatex there with the new o-rings - I've never heard of it causing any trouble. Room temperature self vulcanizing sealant works well too (RTV). In the newer engines (350, 450, 1020, 2020,etc.), Deere's updated kits use three rings, including one that is designed to swell up and seal any gaps as soon as it contacts engine oil. That's the orange color-coded ring. But, there is none available for the 1010 - just the black rings that do NOT swell up.

#4 - Main bearings will often lock up and spin when anti-freeze or water gets into them. But - if that had happened, you'd know it. Also, water in the oil for long periods of time causes acid that eats bearings. You might want to pull out one of your upper mains - near where you find the leak, and inspect. Also, remember, early 1010 bearings are different that later 1010s.

#5 - Yes, the head bolts are supposed to get torqued again - and yes - it's a pain to do. Last one I did, I waited a year before I got around to it. When I did, nothing was loose - i.e. everything was tight. But, I suspect sometimes it pays to do it. I recently put a head-gasket on my wife's Volkswagen diesel. It's also supposed to be retorqued and I didn't do it. Six months later, the head was leaking coolant. To my surprise, I retorqued - and it needed it - and after I got done - all was fine with no leaks.

#6 - I checked with Deere last month and a new deck was around $540 US dollars. In regard to deck or block cracking, I've seen many 1010 and 2010 engines with cracks in the webs between cylinders (in the block). From what I've seen, it never hurts a thing. And - the decks - from what I've seen - they usually get cracked when being removed. I've never seen a gas engine 1010 get a crack that passed antifreeze into the combustion chamber or oil-pan.

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Dave Richards

08-12-2006 19:34:31




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 Re: John Deere 1010 Crawler Antifreeze in Oil in reply to jdemaris, 08-12-2006 13:19:49  
Thanks again for the information. I got everything apart and all went well. On thing I am concerned with is on #1 cylinder there is little round spots on the inside of liner. They are white, looks like oxidizaton, would this be antifreeze penetrating through. Deck looks solid and in good shape.

Yes you were right, antifreeze was leaking through rubber ring on the bottom of the sleeves. Not much left of the rubber gaskets. May have been leaking on the gasket below the deck as well.

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