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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Ooops! -JD450 fuel pump timing gear shaft

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John Wood

09-06-2006 15:49:02




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Hi,

I am in the middle of stripping down the engine (4-202 diesel) from my JD450. When taking off the timing gear end (gear train aluminum end cover) cover I noticed that where the fuel pump gear runs, the shaft has moved axially and the gear has rubbed on the inside of the cover ( not too deep though). Looking at the gear itself I noticed that it had moved slightly, so being of a curious disposition, I grasped the gear and pulled lightly towards myself. OOoops, the shaft and gear came out easily, much too easily I think. Needless to say I didn't notice which position the gear was in before meddling, but I am sure it won't be too hard to time it back properly.

Two questions come to mind:

1. Should the shaft and gear slide out that easily? If it shouldn't then that is probably why it has been moving axially with the engine running and causing scuff marks on the cover.
2. I cannot see anyting to hold the shaft other than perhaps, the shaft seal - being that it is in two parts, both facing opposite directions. Is this what restricts axial play or movement? If that seal doesn't prevent the end movement, what does and where is it?

Sorry about the question, but the manual doesn't show too much and being that everything on this engine is well worn, I am trying to find out what needs to be renewed and what doesn't. I do know that the cost is already more than I anticipated and I have a way's to go yet. Hope I haven't got me a money pit.

Thanks in advance, for any and all comments :-))

J.

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jdemaris

09-07-2006 06:24:01




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 Re: Ooops! -JD450 fuel pump timing gear shaft in reply to John Wood, 09-06-2006 15:49:02  
All that was posted is correct. A horizontal mounted pump like on you engine has a shaft that pulls right out. If the pump was a vertical mount - like on a 3020 or 4020, etc. - there is an internal ring that keeps the shaft from falling out. In regard to bringing it to a shop to install the shaft? Makes no sense to me. It's an easy job - just install the two new umbrella seals, put some sort of compressor on them, and slide it in. Normally, the seals are replaced by pulling the pump off - with the shaft still on the engine. If you are rebuilding the engine though, checking over the pump ought to be part of the job. At the least, look or feel inside the end of the pump where those seals ride. Over time, they wear a ridge into the bronze-bushing. If so, the bushing needs to be replaced. Roosamaster/Stanadyne refers to it as a "pilot tube" and it costs around $12. If you know someone that has some pump experience, the pump can be entirely torn down, checked over, and resealed along with a new bushing installed - usually with one hour's labor and $30-$50 in parts.

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John Wood

09-07-2006 07:44:58




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 Re: Ooops! -JD450 fuel pump timing gear shaft in reply to jdemaris, 09-07-2006 06:24:01  
Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies. Regarding the drive shaft for the fuel pump, it came out so easy that it just didn't seem right hence my posting. The manual I have doesn't show too much detail, but enough to do the job.

I looked in the manual after psoting and saw that the wear limit for the drive "tang" of the end of the shaft, is 0.305", with 0.310" when new. I checked mine and it came out at 0.293" across the tang - well below the limit. A new shaft is needed. I checked the inside of the pump from the shaft hole and the driven clutch appears to be alright, the driver part being the badly worn half. I will know better when I take the fuel pump off later.

JD - you mention the parts available for rebuilding/overhauling the pump. Where would be the best place to purchase these - any recommendations?

Yep, seems like this engine work is gonna be a bit on the expensive side. I am glad the JD dealer is allowing me to loan special tools, it will make a big difference. However, it is still going to be a lengthy process to do properly.

Thank you once again for your information and help. Some of my concerns might seem very basic but this is my first time working on these engines. Please bear with me on that.

J.

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jdemaris

09-07-2006 12:23:51




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 Re: Ooops! -JD450 fuel pump timing gear shaft in reply to John Wood, 09-07-2006 07:44:58  
I wouldn't be concerned about the measurements of the drive tang. It is surface hardened - so I'd look for an obvious wear pattern. If you don't see one, I'd use it. If there is wear, then it's going to wear more and faster - but I've never seen it happen. But, with a 40 year old engine - maybe? That shaft is sort of a "fuse" that protects the engine in case the injection pump seizes. If the pump turns too hard, the shaft is supposed to break before anything else does. You can buy all the OEM parts you want from any Standayne pump shop - or buy aftermarket. I've been using Spaco pump parts and they've been fine. Try www.usdiesel.com US Diesel in Fort Worth Texas is a dealer and will ship. 800-328-0037. A few examples for JDB or DB pump parts:
JDB seal kit - Stanadyne # 24371 - Spaco U24371 $12.10 JDB pilot tube - Stanadyne # 16320 - Spaco U16320 $4.83
JDB pump vanes - kit 20803 - Spaco 09528

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Tom in Central Pa.

09-06-2006 18:57:53




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 Re: Ooops! -JD450 fuel pump timing gear shaft in reply to John Wood, 09-06-2006 15:49:02  
I believe your pump shaft should be hollow on the front. A spring and button belongs in the hole, to keep the shaft back in the pump, the only rub spot should be on the center of the cover.
I recommend that you remove the nut, lock, and gear off of the shaft. Take the pump and shaft to a Dealer or a Pump Shop, and have them re-install the shaft & seals.



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Bob

09-06-2006 17:21:08




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 Re: Ooops! -JD450 fuel pump timing gear shaft in reply to John Wood, 09-06-2006 15:49:02  
Is this a Roosa Master "DB" IP?

If so, the shaft simply pulled out. It can go in 2 ways, 180 degrees apart.

There is a "pip" mark near on edge of the tang on the end of the driveshaft, and, if you look WAY down inside the pump, there will be a corresponding mark near one side of the slot the tang fits into. At the very least, the pump seals need to be replaced, and the shaft CAREFFULLY reinstalled, or you will have a diesel fuel-into-the-crankcase leak.

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