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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

JD 450 clutch

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Phil - MO

09-23-2006 06:12:05




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I'm kind of new at this.
I have a JD 450 loader (straight 450 1970 model) and while digging basement and backfilling I noticed that if I use 2nd gear and high range that when hot it seems like the clutch is slipping when pushing dirt. Seems OK in 1st and/or low range.
What little I know seems to lean toward the hydrostatic transmission because if I rev the engine up it seems better when using high range? Maybe trans oil too hot? Seems OK when first started.
Is this the transmission or engine clutch or maybe too light transmission oil. I use JD 303 rated oil but I think it comes in different weights?

Phil

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jdemaris

09-23-2006 06:30:22




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 Re: JD 450 clutch in reply to Phil - MO, 09-23-2006 06:12:05  
None of the Deere 450s ever had hydrostatic transmissions. What I assume you are describing is a wet-clutch driven, hydraulically activated transmission - usually referred to a the "HL-R", denoting "High-Low-Reverse." The HL-R clutch packs are engaged by fairly low hydraulic pressure and have three ranges. A typical hydrotstatic transmission does NOT use clutches - it uses extreme pressure fluid drive with infinite drive-ratios. Your 450 does have a conventional dry engine-clutch along with the hydraulic clutches in the HL-R. You've also got the dry steering clutches which also can cause slipping. If your dry engine clutch was slipping, it would be worse in higher gear ranges - not better. The oil-viscosity is not going to be the issue. The HL-Rs, though, when very worn, tend to work okay when cold and get worse as they get hotter and slip. A pressure check is in order.

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Phil - MO

09-23-2006 16:08:01




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 Re: JD 450 clutch in reply to jdemaris, 09-23-2006 06:30:22  
Thanks.
Yes I do have the HL-R and I may have worded it wrong but when warm the High seems to slip.
It looks to me like if it was the dry engine clutch it would do it all the time in high. If it was the steering clutches it would tend to have more power on one side? I think you are right that when warm the HL-R is slipping.
I'm building a house by myself and really don't have time to work on it right now and will just finish back filling in low gear and range. I need to do things a little slower and not get in too much of a hurry anyway.

Where do I check the oil pressure on the HL-R? What is involved in repairing the HL-R? Would there be an oil pump or just clutch involved? Would I have to pull the engine? I know, I need to get a service manual also.

Another quick question: I seem to have problems hitting second gear when shifting and if I'm not careful the gears grind when trying to find second even with clutch depressed. Don't seem to have trouble going to 3rd or 4th.

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jdemaris

09-23-2006 20:25:16




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 Re: JD 450 clutch in reply to Phil - MO, 09-23-2006 16:08:01  
There's a test-port down by your feet - 1/8" pipe thread as I recall. A few general comments. The HL-R is probably one of the best tranmissions Deere ever made. But, that being said - your machine is getting a little old - and new part's prices are outrageous. I've heard of several 450s getting parted out because the HL-Rs were too expensive to fix. The thing is - even if just one part of the trans has failed - what happens when you pull it apart and find the rest 80% worn out but still working? There is one common problem though that is easy to fix. There is a threaded-rod adjustment that works with your foot-clutch linkage and your hydraulic pressure-valve linkage. The nuts on the rod determine proper HL-R pressure to a certain degree - and very often they get loose and back themselves off. That is an easy fix and cost nothing. Certainly worth checking - it's under your right foot - as I recall. If a nut backed off and is causing low pressure, High would start slipping before Low. In regard to your gear range transmission - I wouldn't worry about a little grinding. The most common shifted gear has probably lost its sharp shifting points - and also your engine clutch probably drags a bit. That trans has NO synchros. One note - years back - ALL machines ever built by Deere with HL-Rs - including all 450s up to the late C series and all 2010s, were supposed to get some modifications via a lawsuit/recall by Deere. The 4 speed shift-quadrant was supposed to have a neutral slot cut into it, and a new hydraulic shift-valve spool installed - with a wider neutral slot. If your's does not have it - Deere might still be giving out the parts. But, perhaps there was a time-limit on the settlement.

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Phil - MO

09-24-2006 20:12:30




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 Re: JD 450 clutch in reply to jdemaris, 09-23-2006 20:25:16  
Thanks for the info.
I hope adjusting the rod will help. I'll try to get info from a service manual on the proper procedure.
This machine was run into a drainage canal over in Illinois by some kids and the farmer (I assume his insurance co.) spent around $7500 at the St. Louis, MO JD Dealer repairing it before I bought it. They really did a lot of work on it. The engine only has 200 hours on the rebuild and they boiled the tanks, radiator, etc. out, replaced filters, etc. I redrained everything recently and all oils looked clean. Undercarriage seems in good shape and boy does the motor run good.
I mentioned the slippage to the JD Dealer when I was buying some parts and they didn't seem too concerned. I was worried that it might get worse.

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