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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

What dozer?

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Joel59

10-02-2006 09:48:56




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I am a newbie to dozers. I am wondering what dozer I should be looking at. I only have 3 acres which has a gradual slope to it. It probably drops 30 ft. down as it goes 500ft back from the road. I want to bring up material from the back of the property to level off a spot for a house. This will be virgin New York clay. Then I would like to build a practice motocross track (push up some 3-6ft. tall mounds for jumps and corners)I will then have to maintain this track. Is a cat d3 too small? I only want to spend about 15,000. thanks.

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135 fan

10-11-2006 20:34:18




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
I saw your post. I have an MX track on 80 acres. I have a bobcat, a track loader [cat 931b] with a backhoe attachment and a tractor. I have a lot of hours in the bobcat and even though the cat will push more, I think pound for pound a bobcat does the most work. Had you considered a skid steer loader? You could get a really good used one for under $15000. They take a lot of time to get used to but once mastered are incredibly versatile. Being that you only have 3 acres I think you should consider a skid steer. A dealer might have a training course. They are cheaper and easier to work on than a crawler and the real nice thing is that you can see the bucket cutting edge when working. If you do consider one make sure you can see the bucket edge when sitting in it. Some have too low a seat hight. Being able to see what the bucket is doing is a big help. I do all my finish work and levelling with the bobcat and use it to clear snow in the winter. I have a Thomas but they are all pretty good machines if maintained. A cat can make a huge mess and once your track is built is too big to do minor grooming. Hope this helps. Dave

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Coke -in-MN

10-10-2006 08:40:03




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
A loader will do just about everything a dozer will do .. then also it will stack and load and carry ... Before you start moving around material on your lot be sure you site area for septic and house or you could end up having a lot worth nothing from compaction soil in area for septic ... If you are planning on digging your own basement figure if it is a walkout or ? this will also tell if a loader or dozer would be best machine.

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Mitsubishi

10-04-2006 13:06:59




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
Quote: "I know less about the Mitsbushis (who made the Jap ZERO fighter airplane in WWII btw), but again they offer Japanese quality that is well respected"

Guess who makes the CAT D-3, 4 and 5 low drives? ----- > yup, "Mitsubishi".....



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oldcraneguy

10-04-2006 07:26:22




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
Joe I dont wanna discourage you but you need to understand that while learning to run any of these machines wont take long, learning how to do the work you want done can take considerably longer! A dozer will be great to maintain your track, a loader will be what you need to move and stockpile your material the distance your talking, and niether one of them will do the other well with an inexperienced operator! You might give a thought to hiring the initial work done for prob less than a third of you budget and picking up a small, used combination backhoe/loader with another third and party with the rest!...lol seriously a combo wont be as good as a dozer to grade with or a loader to haul with, but it will do both ok...not to mention transplanting trees, digging ponds, septic tank/drainfields ditches for drainage, power lines water lines and theyre even helpful with the occasional engine change...just food for thought....Don

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Billy NY

10-03-2006 10:29:48




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
I'd think that size crawler would be suitable for this kind of work, light clearing, grubbing, grading and pushing some berms for the track, I've done similar work with D3's before. I'm a little more familiar with the Caterpillar crawlers, but a similar size JD or even a Komatsu would be fine. I think it's important to determine the mechanical condition of the crawler, no matter who the MFR is. You should measure, or have someone measure the undercarriage components to confirm the advertised percentage of wear or life left, eyeballing is not accurate in my opinion. Final drives, drive train components, steering components and an overall look at the track frames, blade assembly is a good idea to see if there are any issues. It's good to know the actual condition of what you are getting, no matter what it is, as this kind of equipment is subject to harsh use sometimes, be nice to find a one owner used for grading, that was well maintained.

A crawler loader is a handy machine, but not good for a novice to learn how to grade with, and even then, it takes longer to do the same work you would preferto do with a dozer that has a 6 way blade, and remember a 6 way is not suited for pushing heavy objects out like stumps or rocks, need a straight dozer with outside pusharms. I've spent a lot of time on 955's and 977's, not so much on newer equivalents, great for carrying, loading materials, demo, clearing, grubbing, harder to grade with, they have fixed track frames so they don't osciallate to the contour of the work surface, if you are on uneven ground, no tilt, so it's a challenge to grade sometimes, once you get a cut started evenly, not so bad. for maintaining a motocross track, I would like to think a small D3 sized grading tractor would work well, especially with a 6 way blade. A lot of this is a matter of preference, but you should know what a machine does and how you will want to use it, that and it's mechanical condition, can be costly to repair or re-build, smarter to get one in better shape and spend a bit more.

Also, learn about safety, there are some things to know when operating and or working on these, common sense, but good to be aware if you are not. Later models with have a R.O.P.S. structure to protect you against falling objects like tree limbs, but are designed to protect you in a roll over, must wear the seatbelt as well, so you don't fall out. It's a fun thing to learn, more fun if you get one that has a lot of seat time left before it needs wrench time LOL !

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seann

10-03-2006 09:57:49




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
Generally you CAN do a LOT more with a tracked loader vs a dozer, especially if the loader is equipped with a 4-1 bucket (and other rear mounted attachments). A 4-1 bucket is a "clamshell" that opens up and can be used as a dozer blade and also to grab and pick up objects like rocks, trees and stumps. While generally it's true loaders are more top heavy than dozers and are not as stable/suitable for operating on steep slopes, a gradual 30ft rise over 500 ft is pretty tame, something a loader should handle just fine. And yes a loader can dig down and move dirt around very well, in fact it can actually pick it up and transport it all over the place unlike a dozer can. There is a long list of things a loader can do (esp with 4-1) that a dozer cant touch. The loader does have the disadvantage of not having a side to side tilt blade like an angledozer does, but even this drawback can be dealt with using proper technique/compensation.

Overall I would look more closely at what you need to do and investigate what a 4-1 loader can do before you get a dozer outright. I think the advice for the 955, 941 or 933 cats is good advice. Also look into the other brands like Case (450,850), Komatsu, Deere (450), IH/Dresser (100, 125, 150) etc as well, you could get a good machine for quite a bit less than your $15K budget. I bought an old IH loader w/4-1 bucket a few years ago for much less than your $15K budget and have used it for considerably more than what you describe with great success.

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Joel59

10-03-2006 12:19:27




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to seann, 10-03-2006 09:57:49  
Man you guys have a lot of very good information, and are helping a lot. I am starting to look more at the crawler loaders. One more dozer question though. What is your opinion on the smaller komatsu and mitsubishi b2 line? Are the 40 hp diesels too small for my application? What is the minimum hp I should be looking at. Thanks again.



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seann

10-03-2006 17:51:14




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-03-2006 12:19:27  
In general the Komatsu's are considered to be one of the very best, definitely comparable to CAT in quality. I know less about the Mitsbushis (who made the Jap ZERO fighter airplane in WWII btw), but again they offer Japanese quality that is well respected. The main thing is to make sure parts are available for these machines. And I believe they largely should be as long as they aren't too terribly old. Another caveat is that many of the smaller Japanese crawlers are "grey market" machines which are used machines originally bought and used in Japan and then later imported and sold here. Although I've heard parts are still available, I would definitely research parts availability on these machines with more scrutiny before taking one on. Otherwise, I've always heard they're rock solid quality at a good price.

As far as size is concerned, it doesn't sound offhand like you have a huge job, so I'd say a 40hp machine should do what you need to do in a reasonable time frame. Although on the other hand, a moderately larger sized machine can be a good thing too because you don't have to work it as hard or as long as a smaller machine, making it less likely to break down on you. And you definitely want to avoid that if you can!

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Billy NY

10-03-2006 17:17:40




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-03-2006 12:19:27  
Forgot to mention, it's good to know you have decent service & parts resources, so when considering a particular MFR, see who is in your area and what their reputation is.

Also, ( don't want to get into a dozer vs crawler loader war LOL ) consider what most of your work will consist of, if it's a lot of cutting and grading, and you won't need to carry things, load fill out or anything a loader does, the dozer is more suited for the work, If you plan on banking radius turns, and other shaping type work, I know a crawler loader would not cut it for me, would be downright annoying actually. Also think of your ground conditions, crawler loader usually has narrow pads, double bar grousers which are not that tall and can slip easier. Flotation is an issue with narrow pads on soft material and I'd not want to be doing slopes with a crawler loader if I had a choice. I used to be pretty good at dressing up a site with a 955 or 977 type machine, at the end of a day after loading out trucks or what have you, also good at clearing and some other tasks, but if the bucket has teeth, it will leave those grooves if you don't find a way to set the bucket to smooth things out.

I like crawler loaders, don't get me wrong, on some jobs they are indispensable, and I thought highly of those old 55's and 77's, I'd own one without hesitation, and you do get more use out of one when you think about it, but trust me, your production rates go down if you try and do work suited for a dozer, and yet you are still wearing a set of tracks down for less work finished if you are struggling to grade something or similar, that a dozer would do, same is true in reverse. I like the right machine for the job, but can work with what I have, sometimes a 977 was all that was on site, so you make it work.

You might try and rent one or the other at different times and see how you do with it then see which one you prefer. These late model ones are easy to learn on, if you know an experienced operator, that can show you the ropes, by all means learn as much as you can, it's a great skill to learn and use.

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bgoathill

10-02-2006 18:25:48




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
Have you thought about getting a crawler loader? They are a lot more versatile than a dozer. I bet you could get yourself a nice 955 or 931 Cat that is well within your price range. They also seem to hold their value a little better.



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Joel59

10-03-2006 06:48:34




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to bgoathill, 10-02-2006 18:25:48  
Would a crawler loader really work? My property has a mild ammount of fall- probably about a 30 ft. drop in about 500ft. Does a crawler loader dig down and push dirt forward as a dozer does? I guess my question is can you use a crawler loader as a dozer? Thanks guys.



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MGTPa

10-02-2006 14:31:40




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to Joel59, 10-02-2006 09:48:56  
Yes, a d3 will get it done. Just take your time.
Question: What are your local zoning laws like and How close are your neighbors?? When you start digging and pushing dirt around the local zoning and permit officers will get pretty nosey.
And a dirt bike track will surely bring out the local goverment folks and your neighbors will be up in arms unless you live miles out in the middle of nowhere. Lived across the road from a dirt bike nut, nice folks though, but they rode bikes around morning, noon and into the night. Put up with it for three years. We moved! And this was in very rural Pennsylvania. Years later, this rural township has all kinds of codes
on the books now due to the suburbanites wanting to live out in the "country".

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Joel59

10-02-2006 15:05:25




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 Re: What dozer? in reply to MGTPa, 10-02-2006 14:31:40  
Don't know much about zoning. It is a very rural area. Its surrounded by woods, but there are some neighbors. I would be lucky if I rode once or twice a week for an hour at a time. As an active member of the ama and motocross community, I hate to hear stories such as yours. Some enthusiasts have no respect. I plan to work with my neighbors not against them. Glad to hear that a d3 will work. Any other suggestions?

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