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Old PH Crane - Pictures

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lfc

10-15-2006 18:30:43

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After a few hours of brush cutting, the P&H can once again see the light of day. As the replies to my previous post suggested, the control cylinders will need rebuilding before I can move anything. The current owner stated that he had rebuilt many of them with Napa parts when he was using it several years ago, so hopefully the master/slave cylinder kits can still be crossed.
Here's all you could see before brush cutting:

Side view once brush is cleared. I know this is a simple question, but what is the sheave for mounted partway up the boom? This was last used as a dragline, but in a previous life was a boatyard crane.

View of the controls. I understand the large handwheel down near your feet engages the tracks? I also looked for a nametag but found none. Could this be a model 150?

Rear view of the engine. I still don't know if this is a Waukesha, Continental, or Buda. Any suggestions?

Front view of the engine.

This is certainly going to be quite a project, but I'd hate to see the thing scrapped. The price is right, so I think I'll try to get it running, then move on to freeing up the controls. I need to get the boom down before moving it - is there any easy way apart from getting it going? Would anyone know where I could get a manual? Thanks again for all of the help.

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J.J. from Afton

10-22-2006 19:19:13

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

Congratulations on your find, that is a very neat an interesting piece of history.

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old

10-18-2006 18:57:01

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

Can't say much about it but the engine looks like a contenitail engine to me. I wish I could fin one of them things for digging my ponds and also getting gravel out of the creek. But so far I haven't found one for the right price plus the cost of hauling it home would also be to high for me right now

Hobby farm

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Yonder

12-05-2006 20:04:55

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Re: Old PH Crane - in reply to old, 10-18-2006 18:57:01

I think there is an old crane down by Grovespring just south of town on M hwy. Forgot the man's name but he has a lot of old equipment.

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RLH

10-18-2006 18:28:16

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

The folks at hcea.net might be able to helpwith literature/manuals good luck be careful keep us posted on progress

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lfc

10-17-2006 19:04:40

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Thanks everyone - more questions in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

I appreciate all of the help everyone has offered by answering my "newbie" questions. I've never operated any crane before - let alone a friction crane. I'm pretty certain that this must be a model 150, with a Waukesha 6BZ engine.
I'm also sure the boom is locked, as the owner mentioned having to lift it in order to drop it. I still think I'll try to lift the boom under its own power, as that sounds the safest. Next option is a neighbor with a boom truck. There are also some experienced local engine club members I'm sure I can recruit to be the first at the controls. I tried the controls, and three of the four levers moved with a hard tug, but it doesn't feel like the pistons followed the handles back so I'll have to remove all of them. I'll start spraying everything else.
Now I at least know which lever is which (thanks oldcraneguy) but now I have some more "advanced" questions (for me at least):
-What is the lever for (with the bungee attached) on the left side of the seat?
-What are the two smaller levers for to the left of the bungeed lever? In the picture, one is behind the fluid reservoir petcock, and the other is by the handwheel.
-What is the handwheel for? I think this engages the tracks somehow, but then how do you steer it?
-On the dash are two handles that go to small valves with brake lines running to them. These must do something to the controls, but what?
I'll eventually master this thing! Thanks again for putting up with me.

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oldcraneguy

10-18-2006 10:49:09

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Re: Thanks everyone - more questions in reply to lfc, 10-17-2006 19:04:40

While I cant be certain never having run that model, I know its goin to do its traveling with the swingers (far left) so one lever, prob the one by the seat will move a sliding gear from the swing position to the travel position the lever beside the wheel should be your house lock and the wheel is prob for your steering dogs, I cant see the other ones your talking about but theyre prob the drum dogs, if you trace the boom cable down to the drum you should be able to see if the paw is actually engaged in the teeth around the outside of the drum, it could just be resting on top of one of the teeth in which case the drum wont have to be rotated up before coming down.... In fact you can prob trace (follow linkage or lines) all the controls and get a good idea how things work. Also bear in mind that the boom cable is 20+ yrs old and even if you get it running and the controls working, allow for the possibility that the boom cable could break and ruin your day if happen to be in the way...as always be careful.

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oldcraneguy

10-18-2006 11:58:25

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Re: Thanks everyone - more questions in reply to oldcraneguy, 10-18-2006 10:49:09

Meant to ask you the other day, how far away are those power lines? If the machine started to swing in that direction would the boom get in em? If you get it running, when you go to engage the master clutch just kinda touch it a few times at first just to make sure one of the swing frictions hasnt rusted to the drum if all the gears start turning and you dont get any movement of the house or cables then you could go ahead and knuckle it in...Don oh btw what state are ya in?...fla here

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lfc

10-19-2006 20:24:04

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Re: Thanks everyone - more questions in reply to oldcraneguy, 10-18-2006 11:58:25

The picture is deceiving - the power lines are pretty far away.
I'm in CT, so the rapidly approaching cold season is likely going to delay much work on this until Spring. Time will tell.
The 2007 HCEA national convention is going to be held about 20 minutes from here, so my goal is to get this running well enough to take it to that show the end of July. Apart from that, I'd like to try cleaning out a few cow ponds, if the local wetland officials will allow it. The current owner used the dragline to dig out peat, and he scared me when he told me he had to park the crane on large movable wooden platforms to keep it from sinking. One of our ponds is pretty wet on one side, so I might have the same issue.
Hiring an excavator would probably be easier, but not as much fun!

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oldcraneguy

10-20-2006 11:49:45

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Re: Thanks everyone - more questions in reply to lfc, 10-19-2006 20:24:04

Those are dragline mats, if theres nothing left of the ones he had, and youve got a stand of pines around, you can make your own.. Id shoot for 14-15 footers 4 feet wide ( use some allthread to bolt em together) try to wind up with 3, 2 to dig on and 1 to move to. If your lucky there will be a mat hook on one of the drag chains on the bucket just past the crowsfoot. You run a good sized loop of cable thru the mats on each end and clamp it then you use the machine to hook the mats and drag em around to where ya need em, theres a knack to it so you'll be lotsa fun to watch to begin with. Have you tried to move the engine yet? keep us posted...Don

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NC Wayne

10-17-2006 16:24:07

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

Glad to see you wanting to take the time to resurect the old girl rather than seeing everything turned into a pile of scrap. I've never done anything with the P&H machines, mostly BE and Northwest, so I can't help in the which control does what department. However when you get around to replacing clutch and brake linings, etc give me a shout. Dad and I reline quite a few bands for customers in the area that are still running the old friction machines, so at the very least I know I can help you find any lining material you might need and could probably put them on also.

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oldcraneguy

10-17-2006 07:12:54

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

LFC, If you can get the engine going you might be able to get the controls working enough to boom it down, cpl of big IFs here..Have you tried working the levers? are just the levers froze up or are the plungers froze too? is there any brake fluid in the reservoir? I would start out soaking all the friction and brake band fittings/pins/ springs/dogs with blaster trying not to get much on the lining material and respraying them often while your working on getting the engine going also get the control levers freed up and make sure youve got fluid to all your master cylinders (under the floor, fore and aft of the levers) use lots of blaster/oil/diesel/whatever in this area as theres nothing there that will be bothered by lubes. Then with cyls. full crack your bleeders and work the air out one control at a time, your far right lever is the boom control (back/up forward/down) then the hoist, drag, and swing, right to left. The right pedal is your hoist brake and the left is the drag brake, they should be heel release locks if theyre the same as later model P&H's (I never ran one older than early 60's) Oh just curious have you ever ran a friction crane?
Im thinking you should enlist the help of the owner to begin with to get you familar with how they work, its not a good thing to do by trial and error cause things can happen pretty fast, I dont know but this could be a live boom which means theyre no power down on it so you have to free fall it with the brake and if that wont catch it you have to be ready grab some boom hoist, kind of a lot for a novice, think everything through before you do anything remeber "Gravity is The Hunter"...duck yo haid when nessesary and keep us posted...luck...Don

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RLH

10-16-2006 12:29:27

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

Pay close attention to O C guy we are both professional crane operators and I agree with him, you might tie the boom off cut boom cable at the heart remove it from drum tie it to tractor remove tie down use tractor to let it down and let down .I ran aa 150 years ago it was hydraulic truck mount ,the distributer through the head looks like a continal engine to me ,are you sure you want to fix ti upIve got a bucyrus erie 22b 1969 model with 50 ft of boom and I value it at 5000 with a detroit Im just trying to make the point that that ph isnt going to be of great value in top shape

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oldcraneguy

10-16-2006 10:02:04

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

LOL....Man yer gonna know WAY more about cranes than you ever thought by the time you get this baby up and running, that being said the safest way to get the boom down is to hook another crane to it and cut the boom cable at the drum, but thats gonna cost ya at least $300 if theyres a crane company close by. Failing that, you could try to get the boom hoist cylinders working enough to release the brake, its a long shot and theres no gaurantee that the spring would work enough to re-engage the brake. If the hydraulics wont work you could back the boom brake off and let her come down but be warned that once the drum starts turning it will accelerate fast and its doubtful you could retighten it enough stop it before it hit the ground, bearing in mind that the further down the boom gets the more pressure there is on the cable/brake and if the boom dog was put in and the paw engaged the outside of the drum you will have to actually rotate the drum in the up direction (dont ask me how yer going to do that) far enough to get the dog out. Any way you go about it your in for some fun! I think Id leave the trees under the boom til you get it figured out, you might need them to cushion the landing...lol...Also quite often theres a drag bucket directly under the boom...these make a POOR cushion! might wanna drag it away. If you decide to cut the boom cable I would do it at the drum NOT from atop the the house! that thing will be slinging a mile a minute and could easily slice ya six ways to sunday...Be careful and think about whats going to happen BEFORE you make your move. Best of luck..... ..don

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oldcraneguy

10-16-2006 10:06:20

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to oldcraneguy, 10-16-2006 10:02:04

Oh, almost forgot..the sheeve on the middle of the boom is just to keep the cable from wearing on the boom and vice-versa.

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oldcraneguy

10-16-2006 10:21:40

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to oldcraneguy, 10-16-2006 10:06:20

If your talking about the "sheeve" on the side of the heel section of the boom thats a tagline reel, its for use with a clam bucket to keep it from twisting...

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David L. Clayton

10-15-2006 21:18:12

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Re: Old PH Crane - Pictures in reply to lfc, 10-15-2006 18:30:43

1fc I cannot see for the branches in the way, but the sheeve you make mention is probably a tension device to keep the draglone bucket from spinning and fouling (twisting around each other) the bucket lift cables. It should have two housings that look like pipes that contain large, pretensioned springs that allow the sheeve to turn in either direction but return to the same position as the bucket is worked. This is a long winded explination,sorry. I have a 1952 Bay City truck crane that I still work a lot and have had good luck getting engine parts etc. from NAPA. also have a 1954 Farmall SC, ditto on parts. Sincerely, Dave C.

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