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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

what happens when JD450C rolls over?

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RussT

10-25-2006 11:05:39




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Yesterday while operating my JD450C somehow it I found myself in 45 degree or so angle. I thought surely it was turning over but it didn't. I slowly backed up and got level. It made me think about crawler rollovers, how they happen and the end result. So at what grade angle can a crawler work? Are there ever angle gauges on crawlers to tell the operator if he's in a safe zone? Will the ROPS hold up? Mine has a couple of bolts missing at the mounting plates. Has anyone turned one over on its side and what happened? I'm not worried about righting the crawler just surviving the rollover. Any stories or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

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ken hails

10-30-2006 19:28:35




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to RussT, 10-25-2006 11:05:39  
I have two 450c"s that I have retired -the 450"s not me-, but they started a successful excavating business of over 29 years. One of mine has been over three times. I slid it off a wet trailer. Yes the rops will hold it but GET THE BOLTS IN IT NOW!!!!! my rops went in the ground about a foot and slid about two feet. I would have been in two pieces except I held on, when I stood up (on the ground)my buddy operating the jd 555. Ran over and said are you ok? If you are turn the sob off. I reached down and turned the key off. After set upright with the 555 the next morning we added one quart of oil and the 450 ran many many more hours. until the basement during demolition where it was more on its top. you could see the bottom of both tracks. stayed over nite was set up filled with oil and ran again. I am older now and hopefully safer, but one of my drivers called me to get a one of my 450g dozers up right this past summer as it had slide off a wet and in the road ditch-still half on the trailer-no one wanted to right it, well I didn"t want to either but got it with out too much trouble Good luck and God bless.

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JD dozer mike

10-27-2006 08:29:16




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to RussT, 10-25-2006 11:05:39  
Also forget not the elivated risk of running a track off the rollers, that is a mess to fix at a 45% grade without the help of larger machines.



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Billy NY

10-26-2006 05:34:35




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to RussT, 10-25-2006 11:05:39  
The goverment has a website, with occupational accidents and from what I recall, there are quite a few incidents involving crawler or track type tractors. Some of these incidents, although tragic, are certainly something to learn from. You might find some of these records of interest, some of things I remember from that site, I would have never even thought of, like the person who was doing some work on a neighboring farm, modifying some sort of a pond, had pushed out a slot with shear bank along side of him, over the top of the cab, something collapsed, and I believe this was a wet collapse, he apparently was in a E.R.O.P.S. - enclosed (cab) and the bank or fill would not allow the door to open, his wife came looking, no sign of him or the tractor, little did she know it was right in front of her, buried. There are a lot of things to consider when doing work that has risks involved, like slopes or the above, some of which you may not think of. I spent many years working as an operator in the site work field, and I recall many instances where I should have been strapped in with the seat belt and was not.

I have stood a 977-L on it's nose on flat ground, ( something collapsed below ) with a full bucket, as I was loading one of our tandem dumps, no panic, and I got er out, while the entire jobsite stopped to watch.

It's good to learn what to do, how to select the best machine for the job or consider what you must do to work with what you have. If you are going to be on slopes, you had best be able to secure yourself to the seat and make sure the R.O.P.S. you have is factory, certified, engineered to sustain the loading it will take in the event of a roll over. Many of the incidents I read involved FAILURE of roll over protection structures, that were home built, or really just protection against brush and fallen objects, not factory built or otherwise engineered for a specific tractor. If you have bolts missing, I'd want to give that entire structure a close inspection, cracks, faulty welds, missing fasteners, whatever, it's needs to be 100% at all times, and you MUST wear the belt for it to work.

Honestly, I don't care to work slopes after a certain grade, it's a stressful situation, a lot of highway contractor operators deal with it all the time, so do loggers and other types of trades, I recall reading where the would attach winch lines to a dozer so they could work steep angles, kind of like what people would do with lawnmowers on hills, let er roll down the hill and pull it back up with the rope. That is not something I would want to be doing as an operator, it is amazing what has been done to overcome obstacles like this, high risk work.


In the winter on hard frozen ground, or on snow or ice, you have to be very careful, the grouser pads will act like a skate and you will go for a ride, been there done that, dear old dad did it years ago and went more than 100 yds on the old D7, problem is if you hit a stump or rock, you are most likely goin over.

It's nice to have the wider pads, like an LGP with 3'-0" pads, but sloping and uneven ground is harder on an undercarriage, I believe that the wear factor increases as you are applying wear forces differently, as opposed to working on the flat.

Be careful, read up, ask experienced people, get the r.o.p.s. repaired 100%, wear the seatbelt and work to your comfortable limits, and or the machines limits, don't go beyond your comfort level, use common sense and feel, if it don't feel right, don't do it, if it's not worth the risk, don't do it, you may be able to get some slope information from the manufacturer.

There are a few slopes here that I wish I could mow, along with the field and would probably have no trouble, but there are a few risks, so I just leave em be, no sense it, is my philosophy, not critical that these areas get cleared for any reason, although I'd like to, I realize that it needs to be done carefully, and the area must be walked and there is some risk with the tractor I have, although it's heavily weighted, low center of gravity, and I've had a JD 2010 narrow front on the same slopes years ago, it used to creep me out to no end LOL, and that is a strange feeling, knowing you could go over, and that 2010 is a lot higher than my old Ford 850. Seems I'm a lot more cautious, older, wiser, was a kid back then and that 2010 could have got me on a number of occasions, fine on the flats but slopes, I'll take the ole fix or repair daily LOL !!

Kind of different, we're talking crawlers here.

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NC Wayne

10-25-2006 20:15:18




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to RussT, 10-25-2006 11:05:39  
Like another post said each machine is gonna have a different working range. It's all gonna depend alot on what angle the engine can withstand and still keep oil pressure up. Then add on the machines weight and center of gravity, the length and width of the tracks/track pads and most important wether the operator has big brass ones or not. Most will work front to back at angles I wouldn't even want to think about. I have heard about machines being stood up verticle, usually by accident, on their rear or their nose without falling over. Dad said he's guys working a mountain top where there was a machine on either side, each holding the other. As one backed up the other headed down pushing and vice-a versa. he's also told me aboutwatching them head down a slopes that you couldn't even begin to climb by using the blade and the dirt they were pushing as a brake. If the dirt disappeared they were out of luck but with a load they'd just keep on going with no problems. As far as side hill operation, (running lengthwise of the slope instead of up or down) I watched an operator the other week on an 850 Deere LGP dozer working a 45 degree slope. I keep looking for him to roll it but the worst that happened was the rear slid down several times as he was pushing. He did tell me later it slid one time and it scared him enough he swallowed his dip but in his words 'You''ve just got to ride 'er out'..... The main thing is to be belted in so the ROPS can do it's job because it'd not worth anything if it has kept the machine from going over by landing on top of you. One thing for sure that will usually happen when a machine rolls over is you'll have to replace the seat..... it's either ribbed in the middle from your cheeks clenching it too tight or you simply can't get that awful stink out of it...

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Roy Suomi

10-25-2006 14:22:42




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to RussT, 10-25-2006 11:05:39  
About 25 years ago , one of the customers from the Deere dealer I worked for rolled his 450-C 6410 blade dozer on a utility right of way in N.Y. state..He trucked the dozer to Hine Tractor Sales in Painesville , Ohio..With a Hairy story of rolling the dozer over backwards end over end 4 to 5 times..It was pulled onto it's tracks with a Deere 540 log skidder . Then loaded for the trip to Ohio..The only damage was the bottom cover on a final drive...He wasn't belted in and stayed with it all the way down to the bottom of a ravine...What a ride that must have been...

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Jim in N M

10-25-2006 15:11:30




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to Roy Suomi, 10-25-2006 14:22:42  
Roy, Boy that sure brings a lot of old memorys, I bought my first crawler/backhoe from "Hine Tractor" back in about 1969.Wonder if their still there? Jim in N M



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JCSinGA

10-25-2006 11:35:41




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to RussT, 10-25-2006 11:05:39  
I'd say the angle would be different for probably every machine. Personally I have a low pucker factor LOL, work straight up and down a steep slope dont get on one sideways, I wont be found on a slope I'm not 100% comfortable with, but I'm a mechanic not an operator.
There are angle gauges available for these compact farm/garden tractors, I've never saw one on a piece of equipment, thats not to say you couldn't put one if it would ease your mind.
The FACTORY built/installed ROPS is designed to support the weight of the machine in a rollover, of course it should not be compromised in any way and all the bolts need to be in and tight.
I've never rolled one but have righted several.
By far the safest place in a rollover is inside the ROPS, grab something and hang on the best you can.

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135 Fan

10-25-2006 12:46:16




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 Re: what happens when JD450C rolls over? in reply to JCSinGA, 10-25-2006 11:35:41  
A proper Roll Over Protective Structure is tested and certified for at least 1.5 times the weight of machine. There are fall over protective structures as well. A ROPS is stronger. Because of the testing, that is why they are so expensive to purchase. A lot of machines will slide sideways before rolling. Just don't hit something solid or over you go. Wide pads are best for slope work. Dave



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