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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

loosing prime on Case 188 diesel engine

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ohkentucky

10-26-2006 10:40:58




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I have a Case skidsteer with the 188 diesel engine. I recently had the injection pump rebuilt at a pump shop($500) and now it wont keep its prime(it would start fine before the old pumps govenor ring failed) I have to give it a couple shots of either before the engine will start and keep running from one day to the next,even in warm weather. If it sits a few hours it will start ok. Is the return line fitting on top of the pump a critical point? the reason I ask is, it seems I did not get the fitting in tight enough and I have seen a small leak at the fitting. This pump was a bear to remove and install due to the tight space on these skidsteers, that is why I have not yet attempted to get the fitting tighter. I remember from older posts you guys saying that in a failing pump situation you could remove the return line from the pump and the engine would start/run ok even with a little fuel leaking on the ground, so I assumed this was not a place where air would enter the system, am I correct?

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STRESSFREE

10-29-2006 03:02:22




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 Re: loosing prime on Case 188 diesel engine in reply to ohkentucky, 10-26-2006 10:40:58  
jdemaris my 188 has lots of hours on it it misses under load.changed fuel filters they were real dirty.could the injectors be wore out or pump need a rebuild? no smoke when it misses.



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jdemaris

10-29-2006 05:10:35




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 Re: loosing prime on Case 188 diesel engine in reply to STRESSFREE, 10-29-2006 03:02:22  
It could be caused by many things - fuel related, and not fuel related. First - you need to know if a particular cylinder is consistently not firing - or - the entire engine is just running lousy. If the latter- is could be caused by the injection timing advance not working - which is common with the Roosamaster DB pumps once they get worn.



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STRESSFREE

10-30-2006 03:02:24




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 Re: loosing prime on Case 188 diesel engine in reply to jdemaris, 10-29-2006 05:10:35  
jd ill look into it.any where you know where to get a 188 d block.like to rebuild one before i pull mine.im getting blow by.also do you still rebuild those pumps or would you do it on the side.



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jdemaris

10-26-2006 13:02:57




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 How do you know? in reply to ohkentucky, 10-26-2006 10:40:58  
How do you know it is actually losing it's prime? From what you describe, you'd get similar symptoms if the fuel delivery is set lower than it was before the repair. Loss of prime does not act exactly the same as low fuel delivery. If you are losing your prime - the engine would start fine when cold - but then quit. If it just plain does not start well cold -and just smokes a little - you've probably got low fuel delivery. I used to "rebuild" the Roosamaster DB pumps in several shops. I dislike the word "rebuild" because - most often - the term "repaired" fits more closely. Most of the time, "rebuilt" pumps retain many good - but used moving parts. The wear-item parts are NOT all replaced (unlike an engine rebuild). It's kind of shame that so few people work on pumps - but don't seem to worry about pulling engines apart. The Roosamaster pumps are not very complicated, and very often only need two hours work and $40 in parts to fix. Often - sometime during the life of a tractor -someone turns up the fuel delvery, and/or increases the static (initial) timing a few degrees - all to get better cold starting and/or a little more power. I've seen - many times - where a pump goes through the shop - gets put on the test stand and calibrated back to factory specs. - and we'd then get complaints later - some legit - and some not. We did not repsond to "not enough smoke" but - bad starting machines got the fuel turned up a bit. I was lucky - that in all the shops I worked in - we usually had the tractors there in front of us - or - we got to talk to the customers. If I was reparing a pump - and found that it was turned up - I'd ask the customer about it before turning it back down. Anyway - back to your pump. If it IS losing its prime - it would start right away - just as it always did - but then quit. If the fuel-delivery is low - it will NOT start - at first - like it did before- once it is cold. And - also - if low fuel delivery is the problem - very often a small shot of ether and it takes right off and commences to run fine.

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Jon (IN)

10-26-2006 12:12:12




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 Re: loosing prime on Case 188 diesel engine in reply to ohkentucky, 10-26-2006 10:40:58  
Kentucky, I don't have an answer for you, but I am in the same boat and hopefully someone will reply. I just did a full rebuild on my engine, did nothing to the pump, but I have the same issue as you describe. I feel mine is loosing prime also, as for a few minutes there is a slight miss in the engine, but clears itself up as you run it. Mine's a 188 Diesel in a 350 track loader.

May try a post on the Case board also, if you don't hear anything here.

Jon

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