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JDemaris, question from 10-26, losing prime on Cas

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ohkentucky

10-29-2006 17:29:31

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Thanks for the reply, I was hoping you would respond. As always, what you said makes lots of sense. If I do have a low fuel delivery problem what is the procedure for turning it up? also, if the fuel was turned up at some point in the past what is that saying about the overall condition of the engine/starting system? It seems to me that if the machine would not start well at the factory settings on the injection pump then something else is not in good condition.
Not long ago I posted a question about getting the timing correct when reinstalling this pump. This was my first attempt at fuel injection repair and due to the tight spaces on this machine and the seemingly long range of timming degrees on the flywheel I was never quite sure I got the static timming correct. I did spend some time turning the engine over with a socket and strong arm on the crank pully bolt and rechecking the timming marks on flywheel and the dots on the timming gears. I think you said once before that it was hard to get the timming wrong on these engines. If I do have the timming wrong could you explain "again" the correct procedure for timming and also how to advance the timming if needed? It seems impossible to move the pump once the lines are hooked up, do I have to pry with a bar to get the pump to move? Which direction do you move the pump to advance the timming, toward the engine or away from the engine? Thanks for all the great advice.

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jdemaris

10-30-2006 05:53:59

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Re: JDemaris, question from 10-26, losing prime on in reply to ohkentucky, 10-29-2006 17:29:31

A pump could be turned up - and enhance cold starting for several reasons. A worn or out-of-time engine will sometimes start much better with more fuel delivery. The older Deere diesels had a manual hand-pump to squirt raw fuel into the engine for cold starting. Also, sometimes wear in the pump itself will cause it to not pump enough fuel at low cranking speeds. Cranking speed itself is very important and it must be fast enough - to make the pump work correctly and also to make the engine create compression-ignition. But - with the pump - since you had it fixed - that should not be an issue if it was done properly. Engine wear can be minor or major - so in your case - I don't know. Keep in mind - in regard to timing specs. - they are general specs and not custom tailored to an individual engine. We had many brand new engines that started better with the static timing advanced a few degrees. And, over time, many engines respond well to a few added degrees of initial advance due to general wear. To advance the static (initial) timing, you do so with the engine NOT running. Loosen the nuts - and yes- pry - carefully to make the pump rotate a bit. If there are anti-vibration clamps on the lines - it might help to loosen them. The direction depends on the engine and pump - and I don't remember at the moment - in regard to the Case 188 - even though I own one. The pump will have a tag on it - and it will have either CC or C on it somewhere on it. That tells you the direction the pump turns from the drive-end. So, if it is a CC pump - that means the shaft that goes into the pump turns it counter-clockwise. To advance, you move the pump towards its direction of rotation. So, with a CC pump - you turn it clockwise to advance. In regard to timing being easy?? I hope I didn't say it that way - but - anything can be easy if you know how to do it. And, a normally simple task can be very difficult if you do NOT know how to do it. With your engine - you need a book - since Case changed the timing specs. with various 188s and 207s and I am not familiar with your version.

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OHKENTUCKY

10-30-2006 09:21:21

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Re: JDemaris, question from 10-26, losing prime on in reply to jdemaris, 10-30-2006 05:53:59

Thanks, I believe my engine is in ok condition, it uses about one quart of oil every 100 hours and while running it seems to have good power and runs smooth. When I rebuilt the pump I also adjusted the valves. I have the factory manual and tried to go by it but in regards to the inj. pump section it was not real clear.
Is turning up the fuel delivery and advancing the timming the same thing? You never said how to turn up the fuel.
Also when you said to advance the timming on a cc pump by turning the pump clockwise did you mean looking from the pump end? I know its hard to answer since you can not see the set up I have. Thanks again for the help.

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jdemaris

10-30-2006 10:55:38

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Re: JDemaris, question from 10-26, losing prime on in reply to OHKENTUCKY, 10-30-2006 09:21:21

Pump rotation goes by the drive end - i.e. if the pump was in your hand, and you are looking into the hole in the drive end - what you see is what turns the direction indicated. If the tag says CC, then it is meant to turn counter-clockwise as you look in the hole (if you're British - I guess Anti-clockwise is more correct). If your pump is missing its tag - I can look later - I've got several 188 Roosamaster pumps on my shelf. Turning up the fuel is different than advancing the static timing. Inside the pump there is a leaf-spring with a screw pushing against it. The more you tighten the screw, the more it squashes the spring and makes it get straighter - and subsequently longer. By getting longer, it allows a longer plunger stroke resulting in more fuel available. On older pumps - to turn up - you have to remove the three-bolt top cover off the top of the pump, then rotate the pump until the screw is facing up where you can see it and get to it. It takes a hex allen drive. You reach in and turn - clockwise - usually a 1/6th or 1/3 turn at a time. It's trial and error - but often just a 1/6 turn is all you need.
On newer pumps - the port on the side of the pump where the little timing widow is - is shaped like a triangle instead of a rectangle - thus providing enough room to reach in that hole to turn the fuel up or down. One word of caution - when pumps are new from the factory - there are limiting shims installed behind the leaf spring. They prevent you from turning up the pump very much. Most pump rebuilders that I know throw the shims in the garbage - but you never know. So, if you ever try to turn one up - and screw will only go just so far - don't force it. There may be shims in there.

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