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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

hd 21 timing specs

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D Web

11-19-2006 16:28:46




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I'm doing a search for my uncle who happens to be 87 and still repairs and operates dozers. At present he is repairing an hd 21 and cannot find specs he needs. If anybody has access or knows of a link I would apprediate it. Here is his message to me so you'll know what he wants...

I am working on a old Allis Chalmers crawler model HD 21. I need the specification for valve opening and closing ie. open at x # of degrees BTC { before top center} close x# degree's ABC {after botton center} The engine is a 21000 Serie's engine with turbo. The fuel pump was 13 degree's early and the pistons were hitting the valves and after about 20 hours they broke the crankshaft. "can't figure how it went that long " back yard mechanic's !!!!!

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Bob Blue

11-20-2006 14:36:06




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 Re: hd 21 timing specs in reply to D Web, 11-19-2006 16:28:46  
D Have been looking thru the Allis Fiat Service manuals on the 21000 engine rebuild. Cannot find any info on degrees before and after TDC on cam rotation of the lob. Injector pump timming 34 degrees TBC. I wonder what model 21000 he has. The injector pump timing is the same for the 21000 Mark 2 engines. If valves were hitting the pistons , it sounds like the cam was not timed to the crank. I Found what he wants.

Intake valves open BTDC 28degrees
Intake valves close ABDC 48degrees
Duration 256degrees
Exhaust valves open BBDC 53degrees
Exhaust valves close ATDC 23degrees
duration 256degrees
over Lap 51degrees.
To run the check set the tappets at .023inch

running clearence for valve tappets
intake .015 hot .018 cold
exhaust .020 hot .023 cold

I have 3 21s here on the farm , my toys
21 cable with 855 three vale engine
21A cable with a Mark 2 in it
21A hyd with a mark 2 in it

Bob Southern Ohio

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D Web

11-20-2006 18:27:34




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 Re: hd 21 timing specs in reply to Bob Blue, 11-20-2006 14:36:06  
Thanks Bob... Great help. Here was his reply

This is the data I needed, It appears that it is timed one tooth ahead off the marks' Will find out as the crank is broken.--- { now they tell me it had a very loud knock !!!! }. I didn't start it as it was about -5 and batterie's almost dead. Turning it with the starter. I could hear three clicks each round and feel it as I gripped the rockers after the intake started to open. I pried up on the pushrod end of the intake rocker to check amount of valves to piston clearance about .080''-.100 '' Just before TDC it started to decrease and at about 15 degrees ATDC there was zero clearance the intake valves were bottomed onto the piston head, and remained that way for another approx 15 degrees before loosening. The pump timing is also 12 degree too far advanced.. Thanks for the spec's now I know the rest of the story and why the crank failed.

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Bob Blue

11-20-2006 20:00:57




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 Re: hd 21 timing specs in reply to D Web, 11-20-2006 18:27:34  
That was my thought D, cam timming off.I had water get into a piston one time from a rain, and I tightened an exhaust valve down and pumped the water out of the clyinder.. These old engines have some clearance between the piston tops and the heads. If he needs some engine parts, there is a 21 with a 21000 engine in East Central Ohio being parted out. You might keep my e-mail if he needs some more info. Bob rablue@roadrunner.com

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D Web

11-21-2006 16:24:02




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 Re: hd 21 timing specs in reply to Bob Blue, 11-20-2006 20:00:57  
Passed along your information and thanks again



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