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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Dozers and concrete garage floors

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Joel59

12-05-2006 06:34:17




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I have a freshly poured garage floor (about 3 weeks old) and am wondering if I am safe in putting a dozer on it. I am contemplating buying an old 1958 Cat D6 dozer. I am guessing 20-25,000 lbs. My floor is at minimum 5 inches thick more like 6-8 inches in places. It has the fiber mesh added to the concrete as well as rebar and wire mesh. Am I safe in putting this dozer on it? Any experience with this? Thanks.

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dirtcrasher

12-08-2006 17:42:47




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
You guys are all missing one important point. HE IS PARKING IT IN HIS GARAGE!! Thats great!! Your either single or have an incredible wife that allows "dozers" parking in the garage. Big Kudos to ya!!

I packed a foot of reprocessed concrete under my slab with some wire mesh in it and a 4" pour with 3/8 stone over that. Before I built the (shed...) I parked the 9 ton Dynahoe there about a month after the pour and 6 years later still have no cracks. The BHL doesn't have tracks but it sure is heavy.....

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oldcraneguy

12-07-2006 13:38:34




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
The weak point is the edge, if you can lay down some 2x8s outside the floor and a cpl on the floor itself a foot or so from the edge so the weight goes from one set to the other without loading the outer foot or so of the perimeter you shouldnt have any probs.



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135 Fan

12-06-2006 15:50:14




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
You could also use old tires tires to drive on. That's what they use to cross asphalt roads and it tears up easier than concrete. Dave



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Bob/Ont

12-05-2006 13:52:59




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
Any track machine has very low Ground pressure, will not hurt the concrete but just put down some plywood to keep from grinding the surface if you turn a bit.
Later Bob



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myassitis

12-05-2006 11:34:13




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
Joel
I have a JD 555A at 20K. I also have a residential garage floor no more than 4", proberly 3" in places as I was not there during pour. I pull my crawler loader in all the time (slowly) of course and never had any problems.

Myassitis



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seann

12-05-2006 09:38:19




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
It depends on what type of concrete you have and the conditions under which it is curing. First, it's imperitive that the soils underneath the slab are well compacted. If they're not, the slab will probably settle in the uncompacted area when heavily loaded (like with a D6 on it), causing cracks. Secondly, the strength of the concrete at 3 weeks depends on a few things. The psi rating and thickness of the concrete are the biggest factors in its strength. Is it 2500psi, 3500psi, 5000psi? Most residential concrete is 2000-2500psi @ 4" thick unless you've specified stronger concrete. I'm not saying 2500psi at 5" thick wouldn't hold the D6 ok, but I know it's common for shops dealing with heavy equipment to use stronger than 2500psi concrete in their slabs. Secondly, 3 weeks is a bit early to put the D6 on it in my opinion. Ideally you'd want the slab to cure under ideal conditions for at least a month (and preferably longer) in order for it to reach near optimal strength. Even then it will not have reached it's max strength. Moist cured concrete's strength increases rapidly initially and then slowly increases over time to its full strength over several months (reaching about 75% of its max strength at 1 month if memory serves). Moist curing is substantially stronger than dry cured as evidenced by the graph shown below. Also, did you have an inspector monitor the pour when it happened? It's common for unsupervised pours to add too much water to the concrete during the pour. The reason the workers add excess water is because it makes the concrete flow better and it's much easier to rake and work (working concrete is backbreaking work!). In this day and age it's very common for immigrant Mexican labor to be doing the concrete work too, and while they are very hard workers, they're often used to how things are done in Mexico (where there are few/no inspectors). So you'll hear them yelling "agua! agua!" while making the "drink water" sign to the concrete truck guy trying to get him to "soup it up" for them. But again, the only problem with excess water is that it greatly weakens the finished concrete (i.e. if you ordered 2500psi concrete, you could effectively end up with 1700psi concrete with too much water). Too much water causes the concrete to shrink excessively and crack as it cures. Concrete should usually be poured with a 4" slump unless otherwise specified by the engineer (concrete "slump" is measured with a slump cone).

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Re moist cured: Ideally, the slab should have been covered with plastic (or wet straw) and kept wet the whole time during the 1 month long curing process. Doing so makes the concrete cure to a significantly higher strength than if it's simply left uncovered/unhydrated. It should also not be subjected to freezing conditions, otherwise it will be weakened and probably crack. Insulating blankets are usually put over the slab in freezing conditions (heaters can also be used if necessary).

Bottom line at this point, is I would wait at least another week before driving the D6 on the slab. Then put heavy boards down where the tracks are going to set in order to keep the grousers from chipping up the new concrete. Good luck.

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Joel59

12-05-2006 10:46:02




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to seann, 12-05-2006 09:38:19  
thanks for the posts guys- especially seann. I know a little bit about concrete as I do this type of work in the summertime, but don't have experience in putting heavy loads on it such as a D6 dozer. There is approximately 2 feet of "bank run" gravel underneath it which was compacted with a tamper. It then sat for two years as is. I also put an inch or two of peastone on top with construction grade plastic on top of that. The concrete was poured at a 4 slump- I know I poured/finished it. I told the concrete salesman that it was for a garage floor and I believe he sold me the 4000lb mix. The garage is located in NY and with the temperatures at about 50 degrees (slow cure). I have to think that I will be ok putting the dozer on it (with planks down) but I just wanted the reassurance from on here. I do believe I will wait another week or two just for good measure. Thanks again.

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seann

12-05-2006 13:34:45




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 10:46:02  
Joel sounds like you did a perfect job of preparing your subbase. Two foot of compacted bank run under the slab is fantastic. Plus, letting the soils set out in the elements for 2 whole years after the initial compaction is perfect. No matter how much soils are mechanically/artifically compacted, there usually will still be at least a little natural settling over time after that. Letting the soils set for a few years after the mechanical compaction and letting rain seep through it and allowing for several freeze/thaw cycles will really get it fully settled. You can't get any better than that for subbase preparation.

Plus if you personally saw to it that it was a 4" slump in conjunction with 4000psi concrete (which is really strong and well above what most use), it's 5" thick, and you've got plenty of rebar in it (properly placed, tied and elevated on pedestals); then you should have a really strong and stable slab. I'd say it should hold the D6 just fine with no problems whatsoever. The only thing I'd be real careful about (especially before it's fully cured) would be at the edges of the slab, especially if there is an abrubt incline/edge there. That's where the bending/shear stresses will be at a maximum as the dozer crawls up onto the slab. Try and build a sort of crushed stone ramp there so the tracks don't apply the full weight of the dozer onto that small area on the edge as it crawls up on the slab. Lastly, it's usually recommended to cut "expansion grooves" into the slab at certain intervals to help prevent cracking. But really they usually just "help" the concrete crack along the grooves instead of randomly spreading out (they don't always work though). Good luck, sounds like a top notch job.

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Rob in Yukon

12-05-2006 07:09:56




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
Big shops often pour with rails in the floor, slightly elevated to prevent grouser damage to surface. I have had good luck with heavy and dispensable planks.



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rick roberts

12-05-2006 07:04:42




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to Joel59, 12-05-2006 06:34:17  
I would be sure and place 2 X 12's or some other thing under the tracks to help keep the cement from being chipped. I think I recall reading that the psi of the tracks, for a d-6 with reg tracks was about 5 to 7 PSI. I don't have any problem with my slabs and dozers, but mine are well cured. I drive on 3/4 inch plywood most of the time so the oil leaks are easy to clean up.
rick



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Ken Macfarlane

12-05-2006 10:35:04




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 Re: Dozers and concrete garage floors in reply to rick roberts, 12-05-2006 07:04:42  
The low psi numbers are for on soil when the grousers are fully embedded and the pads are carrying the weight. On concrete the grousers are likely several hundred psi if not in the thousands if the floor is slightly uneven. So lay the wood down for sure.

The strength of the slab depends heavily on the strength of the subgrade so if it wasn't compacted well it will crack. Also if you slab wasn't adequately reinforced or if the reinforcing wasn't placed in the correct locations it won't be able to spread the load to the subgrade and will experience local failures with the dozer on it.

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