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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Detroit diesel won't start

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Yonder

12-05-2006 18:18:52

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PLEASE HELP I have a 1984 Franklin skidder with detroit diesel. I have been working it for awhile and brought it up to the house to clean it. I worked all day getting all the grease off it, washing and painting, then started it and moved it about ten feet and it quit and won't start--what happened? I have checked the fuel, replaced the filters, done everything i could think of. It will act like it is going to start--the first three turns, it starts for a second then shuts off and won't start. I don't understand why. If you can give me advice i sure need it.

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Buddy

12-08-2006 10:01:23

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

Yonder
Post a phone number. I will call you and try to help.

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Yonder

12-08-2006 20:13:55

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Buddy, 12-08-2006 10:01:23

My phone number is a cellphone (virison) 478-972-2110 any help will be apreciated. To update, i did fine the blower--a box containing to concrentic cillinders an i removed it. I could turn the cillinders with my finger so i assumed the shaft was shot out because you said it can't turn except by the turn if the engine. When is cranked the engine it wouldn't turn. I took it off and the shaft had fine teeth that were stripped. I reversed the shaft, putting it in backwards from the way it was and put everything back together. The engine started with a shot of starting fluid but would not run on it's own, but before i did that it would not start at all--now i think if i can get the fuel flowing i might have ther problem in control. If there is anything you can advise me with, i am still stuck.

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chip man

12-10-2006 13:58:02

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-08-2006 20:13:55

You need a new blower drive shaft. reversing it with stripped splines one one end will not help

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JLB2

12-06-2006 07:13:32

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

SUPERCHARGER SHAFT IS STRIPPED,ITS VERY COMMON ON THE IN LINE DETROITS

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Yonder

12-06-2006 21:47:45

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to JLB2, 12-06-2006 07:13:32

I took off the air intake pipe and spun the turbo fan with my finger, then airhose and it spun just fine. Is this a good way to check it or is there something else i should try. I still can't start the engine although it acts like it wants to start.

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JLB2

12-07-2006 04:19:28

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-06-2006 21:47:45

the turbo charger will not affect the starting of the engine.first lets make sure our terms are correct,turbo charger is driven buy the exhaust of the engine,super charger on the detroit is gear driven and bolts to the side of the engine block.follow the hose or tube from the air cleaner to the side of the engine.there should be four 3/8"" bolts that go into the side of the super charger pull them out and remove the cover, that will give you access to the rotors,you should not be able to turn those without the motor turning.

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Yonder

12-07-2006 19:17:10

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to JLB2, 12-07-2006 04:19:28

OK; i will try to find a hose from the air cleaner and chase it down and find the super charger. i am willing to try anything at this point--so the turbo is not the same thing, but i have not yet found the super charger or a hose coming from the air cleaner, but i will go look again and i will get back with you--thank you so much for your patience.

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JLB2

12-08-2006 02:13:46

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-07-2006 19:17:10

If you know where the fuel pump is,the supercharger will be in the same place on the other side of the engine block.

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Yonder

12-09-2006 05:26:03

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Re: Reply to JLB in reply to JLB2, 12-08-2006 02:13:46

Thank you JLB, I did find the supercharger, but not because i knew where the fuel pump is, remember i am not a mechanic and didn't even know this machine had a fuel pump--i thought it was gravity fed--I did find the supercharger and took it off; took off the blower containing two concentric cyllinders, and found the shaft splines worn smooth., I turned the shaft around and put it back in opposite from the way it was and put it all back together. Unfortunately i'm not a mechanic and didn't replace the gasket--didn't know about them either--now it blows oil and so i will have to do it again when i find a new shaft.
After all that, the engine won't run on its fuel, only runs as long as it is fed starting fluid down the stack.
Now i am learning about the fuel pump! Now i have to find out how to get the fuel flowing again. Thank you for your help.

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jdemaris

12-06-2006 06:13:18

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

I'm sure I'm repeating some stuff already said. I worked on a bunch of those 3-53 Detroit powered Franklins. We had three that were trade-ins for Deere 440s and we rented them out. #1 the Franklins just about never had the emergency shut-off cable hooked up. But, it seems very often we tripped the shut-off when cleaning them - when back from rental. Brush in the woods can also trip it. So, #1 you have to make sure the emergency shut-off isn't tripped. It's just an air-choke. Just flip the lever back up and set it (kind of like a mouse trap). The regular, non-emergency shut-off turns off the fuel at the injector racks. So, make sure it is working back and forth. Other than than that, it's a awful simple diesel. Each injector IS the injector pump - so if you have a 3-53, you have three injector pumps - all hooked together by linkage. As long as the little gear-transfer pump is feeding them fuel, and the rack/linkage is working, and the air-shut-off isn't closed, it should run.

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Uncle

12-05-2006 19:52:29

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

None of the diesels like to run out of fuel but I think the detroit is one of the more forgiving.
The plate that you are looking for is on the blower not the turbo.
If you said you could spin the rotor I hope you are talking about the turbo. You cannot turn the rotors of the blower.
If you have the turbo you need to go to the engine side of the turbo to where it feeds the blower. Pull the large hose off and see that the rotors on the blower are visable.

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Yonder

12-05-2006 20:08:01

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Uncle, 12-05-2006 19:52:29

Yes you are right, i was thinking the turbo was the blower. I will dcheck it out in the morning.

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Uncle

12-05-2006 19:31:43

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

here's how I do it, right or wrong but it works.
Follow the fuel line after the last filter. it goes into the head of the engine. This is the fuel rail. I have an old H2O fire extinguisher that I fill with diesel and have an adapter on the hose that will thread into the fuel rail in the head.
I take the fuel line that I took loose and either catch the fuel in a can or run it back into the tank.
From the pressure tank I will start flowing some fuel throught the fuel rail, when I feel like I purged any air that might be in there, I try to start the engine.
You have to keep the fuel flowing into the rail and the engine will start. Usually a couple of cylinders and the others will kick in. You can keep the engine running for some time just don't run out of fuel in your pressure can.
As the engine runs the transfer pump will circulate fuel through the rest of the system, purging out any air.
When I have all the cylinders running and no air bubbles in the fuel I am catching, turn off the engine nand reconnect the fuel line to the head.
You might pick up a little air in the line when you go to hook it up but the engine should start and runn well enough to purge any air out of the system.

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Yonder

12-05-2006 19:45:17

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Re: Thaank you Uncle in reply to Uncle, 12-05-2006 19:31:43

Thank you Uncle, i will try that first thing in the morning--i didn't know anything about air in the fuel line. Does this happen when the tank runs low on fuel? When i replaced the filters i filled them with fuel, but the engine quit before i did that. It only had a small ammount of fuel in the tank, now i have added ten gallons. Thank you so much for your input; it gives me hope and something else to try.

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Uncle

12-05-2006 19:10:03

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

You can disregard my insights, you just answered them. You have a manual kill cable so you will not have the low oil or coolant sensors.
Did you bleed the fuel system well.
I use an old pressure bottle that I put diesel in and the connect to the fuel rail in the head. I get it to run off this supply while the main supply is looped off. this will get all the air out.
Hope this helps.

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Yonder

12-05-2006 19:18:36

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Uncle, 12-05-2006 19:10:03

Uncle; i didn't bleed the fuel system sat all, it is getting flow into the engine, i don't know what to bleed or how. Do i take off the fuel line where it comes from the secondary filter into the engine block and squirt fuel in there?

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RMG

12-05-2006 18:44:58

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

Two things come to mind. Could you have tripped the emergency shutoff on the blower when you were cleaning it? But if you did, should not have started and run a few minutes. Take off hose from air cleaner where it attaches to blower, get a flashlight and look inside. If you see what looks like a metal plate across blower opening, emergency shutoff is tripped. Reset it. Another problem I have seen, a splined shaft turns the blower. Sometimes the splines will round off on blower shaft and blower won't turn. A Detroit won't run without blower working. Do you have oil bath or dry air cleaner? Cleaned out the inside of an oil bath air cleaner off a Timberjack skidder once and engine would not run. Don't know why. We replaced the complete air cleaner and everything worked fine. Just trying to give you some places to look. You either have a fuel supply problem or air supply problem. Hope I have helped.

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Yonder

12-05-2006 19:36:20

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Re: can't find shut off. in reply to RMG, 12-05-2006 18:44:58

I couldn't find any emergency shutoff on the blower or anything else obstructing flow. I have a dry air filter--with two filters, one outside the other one. I took the outside one off and the shaft going to the blower, i put my finger in the blower and turned the fan. It spins just fine. couldn't find anything on this side. Is there something between the blower and the intake? What else can i look for?

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Yonder

12-05-2006 19:08:03

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Re: thank you RMG in reply to RMG, 12-05-2006 18:44:58

RMG this is something new to me, but when i tried to start it smoke came floating out of the blower. I will look for a plate blocking--would it be between the blower and the intake? or where?

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Uncle

12-05-2006 18:31:09

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:18:52

I'm not familier with the machine but as for the engine if you have the low oil shut down or the low coolant shut down, make sure that they are connected and not grounded.
Can you hear the fuel solenoid operate when you go to start it?

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Yonder

12-05-2006 18:36:26

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Uncle, 12-05-2006 18:31:09

It's got plenty oil, i checked it first thing, but didn't check the coolant, will do so. The solinoid i don't know anything about--didn't even know about a fuel solinoid--not a diesel mechanic, where is it and how do i listen for it? please re.

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Uncle

12-05-2006 18:41:19

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:36:26

If you can follow the fuel linkage, it should go to a square looking box. This is the governor. Look at the governor and have someone turn it off and back on.
You should see the fuel cutoff lever move. If not thats the problem.

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Yonder

12-05-2006 18:54:49

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Re: Detroit diesel won't start in reply to Uncle, 12-05-2006 18:41:19

Thank you for your quick reply, not to sound stupid but are you referring to the box on the side of the engine where when i step on the fuel pedel it turns a lever? There is also another lever on this same box that shuts off the engine when it is pulled. but there is nothing for someone to turn off and on, there is no switch or key or anything like an on and off switch on this machine. This square box has a pipe that goes down to another box that has fuel lines running into it and going to the primary filter.

When i step on the throttle pedel it it turns the lever on top of this box, this is what makes the engine rev up. When i pull on the "off" wire it pulls the other lever that shuts off the engine. This is all functioning as it should, or so it appears to me, but the engine won't start. Also at the bottom of this box there is a plug bolt with a screwdriver slot in it. I unscrewed it and it has a little spring on the inside of the bolt, but i don't know what it does. Sorry i'm so dumb but that is why i am asking for advice; anything you can explain to me will be very helpful.

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Yonder

12-06-2006 19:32:40

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Re: Detroit diesel STILL NOT RUNNING in reply to Yonder, 12-05-2006 18:54:49

THANK YOU GUYS FOR ALL YOUR INPUT Unfortunantly my diesel is still not running; i have followed all the suggestions i have received. I have pumped fuel directly into the block, i have taken the air cleaner off and all the air pipes and studied the super charger (turbo) shaft, it turns just fine. I couldn't find any "blower" except for this turbo. i haven't found any kind of shut-off mechanism except for the manual pull shut off on the throtle governer. I am not a diesel mechanic and i am at my wit's end as to what to try next. it cranks over just fine and acts like it is going to start on the second or third turn, then nothing but smoke. What's wrong?
I have learned that it is a 4 cyllinder detroit if that is any help.

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yonder@yonderfamily.

12-12-2006 19:53:45

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Re: Detroit diesel RUNNING thanks to you in reply to Yonder, 12-06-2006 19:32:40

Thanks to you all on this site, especially to Buddy, Chip man, JLB2, Jdemaris, RNG, and uncle, my detroit diesel is rumming agin. It was the shaft that turns the blower--stripped out-- I would have never had a clue had it not been for you guys. Thank you so much for all your good advice and instruction--it took all of you to give me different instructions that helped me get it running again, but thanks to you and this here website, my diesel is running again. I couldn't have done it without you. God Bless. --Yonder

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