Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
snydes

01-25-2007 16:19:26




Report to Moderator

Just wondering if any of those here ever restored an old A.C. loader or dozer, I imagine a few might have. It would be neat to see some pics of a restored machine, seems there are a lot of pics of restored tractors floating around, but not much in the way of track machines. If you have, lets see some pics!




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
DWF

01-27-2007 19:43:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-25-2007 16:19:26  
I was the second owner of a HD-6G sn 3744, a 56 model. It had the tractomotive loader and came orange when new and was still orange when I sold it in 1993. It started pretty good to around 30 degrees. I never ran it in the very cold weather, so I can't be of any more help.
I now have a Dresser rubber tire loader. For what I do I like it better than tracks.
DWF



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-26-2007 06:00:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-25-2007 16:19:26  
Depends on what you are calling "old." I've got several AC crawlers - all completely gone through mechanically and all get used to move dirt (I don't consider them collector's items). Not all painted though. My oldest AC is a 1956 and newest a 1966 - and I don't consider either very old as compared to some of the early AC stuff. Also got two 1953 Oliver-Cletracs and two 1960 Deere crawlers.

third party image

third party image

third party image

third party image

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
snydes

01-26-2007 16:11:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to jdemaris, 01-26-2007 06:00:51  
Well, thats about the year range I was thinking of. I recently picked up a 1956 HD6G and am in the process of getting it back into a decent mechanical state. Looking at the picture of your HD6 brings up a question, my machine has been painted yellow at some point, from what I understand these machines were originally orange, correct? I know there is orange paint under the yellow. Anyhow, it looked like whoever painted it yellow was pretty thorough, inside battery box, behind seat back, etc., all except the engine. The thing that is interesting is that the yellow stops right at the intake, right after the elbow coming from the air cleaner, the exact same way yours appears in the pic. I figured someone changed the engine out at some point.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-26-2007 17:41:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-26-2007 16:11:44  
HD6s came in two color choices - Persian Orange or Industrial yellow. It may have had something to do with the fact that they were sold as agricultural machines or industrial machines. And, many got repainted later. Kind of like what Deere did with many of their tractors in green or yellow versions depending if they were sold as ag. or industrial. I don't know what colors the engines were originally. They are Buda engines, not Allis Chalmers - but AC bought the engine rights. That was after a dispute AC had with Detroit Diesel - which led to putting the Buda 344 c.i. engine in the HD5 and renaming it the HD6. I don't have any yellow brochures, but here are a few Persian Orange.

third party image

third party image

third party image

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
snydes

01-27-2007 06:18:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to jdemaris, 01-26-2007 17:41:04  
Very interesting, I did not realize the HD-5 was basically the same size machine. Do you know how it worked with AC's relationship with Tractomotive? Did the machines get sent to Tractomotive to be outfitted with loaders, or did Tractomotive supply the loaders and AC installed them in their assembly plant? Just curious.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-27-2007 06:52:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-27-2007 06:18:59  
I don't know much of the specifics about affiliations that AC had with other attachment manufacturers. Most of my older crawlers have dozers and loaders made by some other company. My Cletrac has an Anderson dozer. My AC HD6 has a Garwood dozer. I know that Allis Charmers used Hough, Henry, Gar Wood, Baker, Carco, Tracto-motive, etc. AC bought a lot - or merged with several companies over the years, e.g. Buda, Henry, Fiat, S.p.A. Italiana, etc. AC purchased Buda in 1953. I believe AC purchased Tracto-motive and Henry in the late 50s.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
snydes

01-27-2007 09:49:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to jdemaris, 01-27-2007 06:52:32  
I see. I was thinking maybe if they shipped them off to another plant for adding on the dozer or loader they might have changed colors there for the end customer. This is all just trivial info really. I'm a car buff and in the car scene guys get really into that type of knowledge, helps with the details of a restoration, which kinda brings me back around to my original question. But anyhow, since I have your here and you have a '56 as well, how well does yours start for you? Any tips or tricks? I only started mine twice since I brought it home, once bringing it off the trailer, and once a few days later, and it didn't want to start without ether. I have a feeling it has low compression. Right now I have it apart to go over some issues here and there, drained out what fuel was in it because it looked pretty questionable, and it did have pretty much water in it, so I hoping some fresh fuel might help a bit.

Thanks,
Steve

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-27-2007 13:54:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-27-2007 09:49:16  
I've always like cars too - but never cared much about making them look better than they ever did when new. That seems to be the trend now-adays - with cars and old tractors. The HD6 isn't supposed to start well on its own -it's an older technology - diesel. It came from the factory with a dash-mounted ether injector - which on your machine is probably long gone. With the ether injector it would probably start down to the 10s- 20s F. Without it and no either - a good engine will barely start at 50 degrees F. For extreme cold-weather starting, Allis Chalmers sold a small oil-furnace that hooked directly to the intake manfold - called by AC the "engine air heater." It used electric ignition and diesel fuel was injected by a hand-pump. It threw a flame and heat into the engine to get it started. Keep in mind it was assumed, when these things got built, that using an electric block heater was not practical - since these things often sat out in the woods or field. Your best best is just install a good tank-type coolant heater. Then, just plug it in for 20 minutes (or more if it's real cold) and you'll be fine. Eliminates a lot of wear and tear on everything - and eliminates you sending the engine to an early death by over-ether use. Also, if you insist on using ether - install an injector line with an orifice to control how much ether can get into the engine at one time. Most OEM installations always have an orifice. You can still get them from Deere. The Buda 344 (at least your version) is an indirect-injected diesel - but - unlike most other IDI diesels - it has no glow-plugs for cold-starting. In the late 60s, the engine got updated to direct-injection - which is NOT necessarily a big improvement. The old engine is just fine. You can still buy most engine parts new - direct from Buda Engine Co. They are in business again - in Louisiana. One thing about your HD6 you might want to think about. It's unusual - because the engine is mounted in rubber. That means it moves around a little while the radiator does not. So, it needs special radiator hoses. Many, if not most HD6s do not have the correct hoses - and they often break - or worse yet - break the radiator. The bottom hose is pretty miserable to change - but you ought to check it and fix it now - if needed - rather than have trouble later. To my surprise - the OEM special hoses - at the moment - are still available from Gates - but perhaps not for long. Bottom hose is 2 1/2” i.d. X 6 3/8” long. Top
hose is 2 1/4” i.d. X 5” long. AC #s are: Upper - 088349 Lower - 088348 I got the hoses
from NAPA, Gates #’s 688 for the lower and 690 for the upper. I suspect that soon they will no longer be available and they would be very hard to make. They have a sort of bellows built into them to absorb all the movement.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
snydes

01-27-2007 21:34:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to jdemaris, 01-27-2007 13:54:05  
I know what you are saying about the "over restored" cars. Some guys get out of control with the stuff.

Believe it or not the dash mounted ether injector is still there, took me awhile to figure out what the heck it was. I guess no-one makes the ether gel-caps anymore? I found this company called Kold Ban that makes a ether system that uses an electric solenoid to inject ether from a bottle into the intake tract. It looks like you could use the original location on the intake for this system. They taylor the system to the engine size to give the "right amount" so they say.

How does the tank type coolant heaters work, and who makes a decent one?

I appreciate those PN's, I'll pick up a set and keep them in stock just in case.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-28-2007 07:51:47




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-27-2007 21:34:19  
Katz and Zero-start seem to be the most common tank-heaters. You can get them up to 2000 watt - but that size will trip an older 15 amp circuit and won't run through a long extension cord. The 1500 watt model is more forgiving - and it will heat up an HD6 with 8 1/2 gallon cooling system fast enough. I plugged mine in once at 20 below zero - and it was warm enough to start in two hours. On a more "balmy" 20 degree F day - one hour is all it takes. Tank heater works by thermo-siphon principal - so it must be mounted verically to circulate coolant. It also has a built in thermostat and will shut itself off when things get too hot. Any good auto or tractor store ought to have it - but prices can vary wildly. I usually buy such things on-line from places like Sloan. They sell a 1500 watt tank heater - part # 489011 for $37. I see other places asking over $50 for the same. I'm kind of surprised this tractor-site doesn't sell them. But - if I include any links - the people here will delete my message with no warning. They have already deleted this one twice and I keep playing with the words. So, to avoid the Internet tractor word-police from deleting me again - just go to *oogle and type in "sloan express" and you'll find the link. Many OEM companies, including car, truck, and tractor diesels use frost-plug heaters. They work okay but are very low wattage and heat very slowly. They're fine when you keep you diesel plugged in overnight - or sometimes all winter - night and day - but no good when you need your tractor "today" and forgot to plug it in. Most are in the 150 to 300 watt range and do NOT circulate coolant. In regard to AC and ether. Spraying in the air-cleaner is wasteful - since most of the ether goes to the birds. An electric setup is just more money, and more complication for a simple task. Deere installed them OEM on our industrial ad forestry stuff. Most are made for 12 VDC, not 24VDC like the HD6 has. Nicest ether system is the manual setup. And orifice is installed in the air-intake to limit ether "overloading." You might still have the original. A small line runs to the dashboard and is hooked to a recepticle. The AC setup used a proprietary cannister that is no longer available. A more modern setup can be bought from Deere. On the 350s, 450s, etc. Deere used a port with a dust cap on it. Take any off-the-shelf can of ether, pop the spray nozzle off - thus leaving the stub. Then, just plug it in and push - while cranking. It works fine - and any size ether can can be used. With the electric jobs - you can only use one size ether can. Funny thing about proprietary cannisters - my 1979 Datsun 280Z had one for the spare tire. The spare only fits into the car when flat - so Datsun used to sell a little air-cannister. I now carry a cigarette-lighter powered air-compressor I bought at Walmart for $15. About AC and the optional "flame thrower." AC, Case, Ford, SAME, Massey Ferguson, et. al. all used to have them. You can still buy one for $50 - but they never worked all that well. They are all for 12 VDC systems though, true 24 VDC stuff - like for the HD6 is kind of scarce.
Put a good tank heater into your HD6, and the batteries, starter, and engine will thank you.

third party image

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
snydes

01-28-2007 11:07:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to jdemaris, 01-28-2007 07:51:47  
Wow, thanks, I'm new to the heavy equipment scene so there is a lot I don't know, and you just saved me a bunch of time. I'm going to get one of those tank heaters for sure. I'm anxious to get this old machine back into shape and get it out and start pushing some dirt around. One other issue I have to address is the muffler, it's rusted out pretty bad at the bottom. I guess most of them are getting pretty thin by now. I think at some point I'll take it off and see if there is anything I can do with it. I checked with an Allis parts place and they said they are no longer available, and if they were I imagine the price would be outrageous.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-28-2007 11:30:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-28-2007 11:07:55  
They are still available new - but the price is very high. Last I checked it was around $500. Mine still looks like new. Does your dealer actually search the AGCO parts database? Some ex-AC dealers don't. AGCO still has a lot of new parts - old stock in Allis Chalmers boxes. AGCO is also making new parts for many old machines - but only parts that are in high-demand. I see a new HD6 muffler for sale on Ebay every week or so - along with other 344 engine parts - but the prices are rediculous. Many of the engine parts can be bought direct from Buda. They have a website - but it's too much work to try to include it here and fight with the word-police. Info is: The Buda Engine Company, Inc. 241 Aero Drive PO Box 7762 Shreveport LA 71107 Shreveport LA 71137-7762 Phone 318 222-3348 The ex-AC industrial dealer that I use for AC parts is in PA - phone # 570-729-7117 . They sell new-old-stock AC parts, newly made AC parts from AGCO, and also used parts. You may also want ask Hector Gemme. He's in Canada and frequents this forum. He has a lot of AC parts.

HD6 muffler is AC part # 086767

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
snydes

01-28-2007 15:24:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to jdemaris, 01-28-2007 11:30:33  
I'm not sure if he searched the database or not. I'll give that guy you listed a call. I found the link to the Buda website, I'm trying to gather as much info on parts suppliers together as I can, for future reference.

On that tank heater, did you T off at the temperature sensor port for it?

Thanks again for all the help,
Steve



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-28-2007 15:40:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-28-2007 15:24:35  
I forgot to mention, there is an original HD6 parts book for sale on Ebay. If you can buy it cheap, it's a nice thing to have. I've got the OEM books for all my tractors, hoes, crawlers, etc.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

01-28-2007 15:38:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to snydes, 01-28-2007 15:24:35  
You can see the pipe-T I installed in the photo I posted - at the rear of the engine. As I recall, yes it is the temp port - but I don't feel like going out in the snow right now and looking. I've been carrying firewood all day - just got in the house - and I'm too tired to go back out.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
snydes

01-28-2007 16:07:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Anybody restored an old A.C. loader or dozer? in reply to jdemaris, 01-28-2007 15:38:36  
Thats alright, I've blitzed you with enough questions for one day! I have gathered up all manuals (parts, service, operation) except those for the shovel, which I'm keeping my eyes open for as well. I've got a list of places to go and people to call for the next week for parts and pieces. Keeps me busy!

Thanks again!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy