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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut out

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RussT

01-29-2007 10:44:44

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I put a new alternator on my JD 450c crawler. I believe it's a delco 10SI. I wired it from what I learned on this website. Battery (BAT) post to battery, #1 terminal to the ACC side of my keyswitch and #2 I tied to the BAT terminal. It seems to charge since I read from 12.5 to 14 volts at the BAT terminal depending on how many RPM I'm at. I can see my ammeter moving toward the charge side as RPMs increase also. But at idle the engines cuts out every 10 seconds or so. The higher the RPMs the less it cuts out. It's like the injector pump solenoid is de-energizing for half a second periodically. If I disconnect the Alternator #1 terminal it doesn't cut out anymore. When I first wired it up and ran the engine I thought I detected a funny smell like electrical wiring getting hot. I don't know if that means anything because the alternator still seems to be charging. Does anyone have an idea of why the alternator is causing this cutout problem? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
RussT

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RussT

01-30-2007 14:59:35

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to RussT, 01-29-2007 10:44:44

Thanks for all the helps guys. How can I tell if the alternator is charging? With the tractor running I measure about 12.5 volts at the BAT terminal on the alternator. As I increase RPMs the voltage increases up to about 14.5 volts. Would that indicate its okay? I disconnected the battery cable while it was running to see if it would run off of the alternator power but it shutdown after about 1 to 2 seconds. Would that mean anything or is the alternator output just not enough to keep the injection pump solenoid pulled in? I thought it may keep running like a car will. I'll try to check the current (if my voltmeter will) and then have the alternator checked and then put it back with a diode inline. Thanks again for the help.
RussT

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Phil (NJ,AZ.Sask)

02-03-2007 15:12:07

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to RussT, 01-30-2007 14:59:35

RussT, {quote] then have the alternator checked and then put it back with a diode inline [/quote]

Having it checked First is a Very good idea. The problem is most likey a partial shorted diode Trio in the alternator, which could also damage the ACC contacts & wire.

BTW: The Additional diode will not fix the existing problem with the diode trio. It prevents loading of a working system.

Post what you find and it may help others

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RussT

02-04-2007 16:23:49

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to Phil (NJ,AZ.Sask), 02-03-2007 15:12:07

Thanks Phil,
I talked to my alternator guy. He gave me the diode trio and said that's probably the problem. I will be tryng it next weekend and I'll post the outcome.
Thanks,
RussT

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jdemaris

01-29-2007 10:57:01

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to RussT, 01-29-2007 10:44:44

One shouldn't have anything to do with the other. The IGN switch is protected by a circuit breaker under the dash. Sounds like it's tripping - so maybe you did something that's drawing too much current on the main circuit. #1 terminal on the alternator should draw very little current. If there's something amiss, and it's drawing 20 amps instead of 3 amps, it would trip the main breaker. Check the current flow in lead to #1 at the alternator.

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RussT

01-29-2007 12:25:50

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to jdemaris, 01-29-2007 10:57:01

Thanks, I'll give it a shot. I actually tied #1 to the cigar lighter terminal since it was connected to the ACC side of the switch. Does it make since that the breaker would trip off and on that quick? The engine cuts out for just a fraction of a second. It's like someone turned the key off and then back on real quick. It does it about every 10 seconds at low idle, every minute or two at about 1500-2000 RPM and doesn't seem to do it at 2000-2500 RPM. I may go back and tie #1 to the ignition side of the switch and use a diode and see if that makes a difference. Thanks

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Phil(NJ,Az,Sask)

01-29-2007 20:11:56

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to RussT, 01-29-2007 12:25:50

[Quote]I may go back and tie #1 to the ignition side of the switch and use a diode and see if that makes a difference.[/quote]

RussT, The diode should have been installed even when using the ACC contacts.

The problem is that the Battery is connected directly to the Excite terminal, via Switch (when connected without diode).

The Alternator has a diode trio that supplies voltage for the Regulator, this voltage is connected to the Excite Terminal. If this voltage is also connected to the battery, via your ACC wire, the load will damage the Alternator diode trio.

The addition of the diode blocks the voltage, developed by diode Trio, from feeding "TO" the battery. The voltage "from" the Battery is only used to start the Alternator Charging.

You may have a damaged Alternator, have it checked if, after installing the diode, regulation is erratic.

Hope This Helps,

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jdemaris

01-29-2007 12:40:38

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to RussT, 01-29-2007 12:25:50

Yes, that is how those breakers work . They are self-resetting and work on the same principle as a signal-light flasher. Your lights flash on and off because in your car or truck - because at the proper load the breaker trips on and off - intentionally. When one light burns out, the current demand is less, and the flasher/breaker no longer trips. This is supposed to give you warning when a bulb is out. The little breaker on the Deere will be marked for the amperage rating - I don't remember if it's a 15, 20, or 30 amp. Also, when they've been tripped a lot, they get weaker and trip on less then the current they were designed for.

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Jon Hagen

01-29-2007 14:39:41

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to jdemaris, 01-29-2007 12:40:38

Russ T, That #1 regulator terminal should have 0 amps draw once the alternator is charging at speed. It will draw up to 3 amps if the #1 wire is directly wired to the switch and the engine is stopped or turning at slow idle. Try hooking an indicator lamp in series with the #1 wire. A car side marker lamp assy or other two wire indicator lamp will do. The lamp will allow a max of 1/4 amp to flow to the alternator #1 exciter terminal,which is plenty to excite the alternator without overloading that breaker. The light can be exposed to serve as a charge indicator,or hidden if you choose.

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jdemaris

01-29-2007 15:01:35

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to Jon Hagen, 01-29-2007 14:39:41

Yeah, a light, or a resistor, or a light and resistor hooked in parallel work fine. Sometimes and in-line diode is needed also. But . . . if his field circuit in the alternator is drawing engough current to trip a 15 or 20 amp breaker - it's got something wrong with it.

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Jon Hagen

01-29-2007 16:55:29

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Re: jd450c alternator conversion makes engine cut in reply to jdemaris, 01-29-2007 15:01:35

Your advice to check the field current draw first was good advice. Should not draw more than 5 amp,usually not more than 3. There is the possibility of a shorted rotor winding or shorted diode trio drawing more than normal current. Usuall 10 plus amp field current will burn the regulator out in an instant, like when some dummy tests a newly rebuilt alternator without pulling the brush holder wire out of the brush holder. (dont ask how I know about that :)

One other thought, are you using a factory style regulator plug,or just two uninsulated quick connectors on the regulator connections ? If using uninsulated connectors,they run a fraction of an inch from the alternator case, and vibration could be shorting them to the alternator case and blowing the breaker. Those replacement regulator plugs are avalible at any auto parts store for around $2, and eliminate a potential short that may burn up the wiring harness,plus they make the conversion look more professional.

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