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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

info about wet brakes?

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mike a. tenn.

04-05-2007 06:52:57

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...i'm looking at a case 580 backhoe/loader combo. good friend of mine is selling it and says the only things wrong with it are...it leaks some hydr. fluid somewhere, needs a new battery, and that the brakes are weak. i know these things have "wet brakes" but i don't really know what or where they are or how they work. could one of you fine gentlemen, (or even one o' you just regular guys) give me a "wet brakes 101" explanation so i know what to look for on this thing before i buy it? everything else on this case seems to be pretty solid, strong engine, good hydr. cylinders that don't leak, decent hoses, and i feel the price is pretty good. i do expect to have to do "some" work on it, but i just need it for cleanin' up around my place a little and maintaining a couple ponds and a few landscaping projects i want to do. i've only worked on old tractors with mechanical brakes, so this is new territory for me. any advice or insight would be mucho appreciated....thanks

-mike

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Grampa Leon

04-07-2007 17:16:56

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-05-2007 06:52:57

Torque converter filter washable type,if you drain compartment and converter,it needs to be turned plug down,this is mentioned because very precise procedures are detailed in manual for refilling,so it is advisable to have your manual, or if not can pass the info on.

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mike a. tenn.

04-07-2007 17:50:06

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to Grampa Leon, 04-07-2007 17:16:56

ok...i'll definately get the manual on that before i do it. thanks once again.

i've been looking for a combo machine that i can afford now fer a few years, and i'm getting very anxious to get it home and start giving it some TLC, and putting it to work for me. call me crazy but i just can't wait to get all covered in dirt grease and hydrailic fluid, and then start movin' some dirt around this place. this might explain the seemingly endless questions i keep throwing at y'all, thanks fer bein' patient with me and helpin' me out.

-mike

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Grampa Leon

04-07-2007 14:04:39

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-05-2007 06:52:57

If your machine is a power shuttle,trans. filter requires pan to be dropped to be serviced, hydraulic filter under hood on right side,just ahead of fuel tank,power steering filter in canister with dipstick [should have an "o"ring on hand prior to removing], all other filters well exposed for identification.Also check water and fuel trap drain under tank[usally plugged]The oil you mentioned is what I use.I have not seen any manuals on the market,no matter what they would be quite pricey.On checking records my machine is a 1977,so yours would change correspondingly. Can assist you with info. until you get a manual.

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mike a. tenn

04-07-2007 14:55:06

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to Grampa Leon, 04-07-2007 14:04:39

i think i may have found a website where i can download the service manual to disc and then print out as needed. i still have to check it out and make sure it's what i want tho. but knowing it is a '77 model will help, thanks.

it is a shuttle shift, and the trans fluid is the first i want to change as it looks pretty bad. i'm sure whatever filter is in there is probably needing servicing, thanks once again. would this be a replaceable filter or a screen type that just needs cleaning?

-mike

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Grampa Leon

04-07-2007 06:43:09

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-05-2007 06:52:57

Yup,Case 580C backhoe originally designed as dry
brake system,however many turned out to be otherwise.On right brake with diff. lock,within is a slim seal,[Case part no.A146027]cheap at only 10 bucks or so, which is easily forgotten during assembly.This is in addition to larger seals in brake hub.I relined both of my brakes,
and found out about the missing seal from previous owner.If you delve into this system, it is advisable to do both sides simultaneously so bull gear shaft can be de-shimmed.My machine is a 1978 model with serial no.8959558,if it will help you in determining your year.Also have much other info.if needed,

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Grampa Leon

04-07-2007 08:06:17

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to Grampa Leon, 04-07-2007 06:43:09

It would be safe to assume your machine to be a 1978 or later, compared to my no.You may consider yourself fortunate to have a serial no. as my tags was ripped off for whatever reasons,however Case in Racine,Wi.,was very helpful,as I furnished one engine no.they, in turn furnished the other numbers which were assigned to the machine when it left the factory.
[your serial no.should be sufficient to acquire any manuals needed]

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mike a. tenn.

04-07-2007 08:48:30

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thanks G.L... in reply to Grampa Leon, 04-07-2007 08:06:17

...the first thing i have to do is get it home. it's about 45 mles away right now. do you have any suggestions about the best place to aquire the manuals? are there any internal hydraulic/transmission filters or screens? the FIRST thing i always do when i get machine is change all the fluids. that way i KNOW the last time they were changed, and that the right type is in the systems. i believe that hy-tran or an equivelant is the correct type fluid for the hydraulics and the transmission...am i right?
thanks again y'all...

-mike

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mike a. tenn.

04-07-2007 07:06:25

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to Grampa Leon, 04-07-2007 06:43:09

well G.L....if yours is a '78 with ser# that starts 895---and mine starts 896---, do i assume that mine is a '78 or later model? i'm gettin' a little confused now. i have to confirm this one way or the other so i end up with the right manuals as well as parts. i'm sure i'll be workin' on it so i will be askin' fer more info in the future...thanks.

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AJK

04-06-2007 12:50:28

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-05-2007 06:52:57

I started off on the wrong foot by taking it that the machine was a 580K,checking the serial number posted the machine is 580C series C and was built in 1977.the first serial numbers for the K started off with 17 up to 1988 and after 88 started with JJG,all the Case backhoe loaders used the acronym CK meaning Construction King but that is not to be taken as the model,the problem the brakes have on the machine you are talking about is like the other poster said oil leaking into the brakes,they probably need relining and a couple of seals.
AJ

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VaTom

04-06-2007 17:48:19

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to AJK, 04-06-2007 12:50:28

AJ, there is a 580CK here, no other letter. CK is the model, which was a hoe stuck on an industrial Case tractor. Very different from later models.

CK has dry brakes, if they're to work. Relining isn't an option. It's a peculiar disc system. My dealer only stocks total replacement parts, not rebuilding parts. For good reason.

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mike a. tenn.

04-06-2007 13:54:28

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Re: info about wet brakes? sorry in reply to AJK, 04-06-2007 12:50:28

let me apologize to AJ and y'all that have been helpin' me out here. i didn't know the ser# when i posted the first question about the wet brakes. i jotted them down yesterday afternoon when i was checking the machine out. i do appreciate all your replys. knowing now that it's a 1977 model C, will be very helpful in my effort to learn about this thing. altho i've operated quite a few backhoes in the past, i've never worked on them, so this will be a new education for me...i just hope old dogs CAN learn new tricks or i'm in trouble. i hope y'all will stick with me, as i'm sure i'll be buggin' y'all for more help in the future. thanks again.

-mike

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AJK

04-06-2007 15:08:42

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Re: info about wet brakes? sorry in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-06-2007 13:54:28

No sweat Mike one has to ask to know,good luck with your machine,I am in the UK and all the Case backhoes before the K were built on the David Brown tractor rather than a Case tractor like in the US.
AJ

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Jiles

04-05-2007 19:30:30

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-05-2007 06:52:57

Some 580K's have dry brakes. I have a 480D and I replaced brake parts from a 580K. I do not understand this.

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AJK

04-05-2007 10:18:55

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-05-2007 06:52:57

The term "Wet Brakes" is used to describe brakes that operate immersed in oil and are usually mounted inboard between the halfshaft housing and transmission case,the old conventional dry brake was usually mounted outboard near the wheel,the brakes on the 580K are wet,they are self adjusting and usually trouble free,when the pedals go down too far it is usually the master cylinders pistons that are not returning home fully and they do not get the full charge of fluid needed to keep the pedals up when pressed,the seals on the piston inside the axle can fail but its rear.go to the link below I have posted a picture from the parts book so you can see the setup.
AJ

Case 580K Brake

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mike a. tenn.

04-06-2007 03:06:53

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to AJK, 04-05-2007 10:18:55

AJ...wow...thanks a bunch for that explanation and the parts book pic...VERY helpful! i went over to check the thing out yesterday, and after getting it started and filled with fluids, it seemed to run and operate very well. the brakes ARE weak but useable, and i couldn't find any major leakage problems anywhere. i feel this tractor might be fine to do what i need it to do. could i bother you for another favor? i got the serial number from it; 580CK, 8960171, and i'm curious about what year model it is. could you direct me where to go to find this out? also, i'm pretty sure i'm going to get this thing and i'd like to find some service/parts manuals for it if i do. do you know where i might find these? thanks very much again for your help, i appreciate it.

-mike

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Jiles

04-06-2007 07:15:13

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-06-2007 03:06:53

Go to www.equipmentpartssource.com This site is very informative and will, most likely, give year model. I have completely rebuilt brakes on my 480K and I can tell you that these machines have poor brakes. Don't expect brakes like a truck.

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VaTom

04-06-2007 04:39:54

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to mike a. tenn., 04-06-2007 03:06:53

Mike, if it's a 580CK, it's got dry brakes. With a seal from the final drive that's problematic. One side very difficult to install leak-free.

There's a disc in there that moves 2 directions, against 2 "drums", very expensive from the dealer. I understand they're rebuildable, but we didn't.

Tough old tractors, great engine. Get a manual.

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Bob Farrell

04-06-2007 07:22:07

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to VaTom, 04-06-2007 04:39:54

What's the difference between a 580C and a 580CK? I have a 580C that the brakes have never worked right on since I got it (six - seven years ago). Supposed to have had all new brake parts on it when I got it. Been a darn good tractor other than brakes. Difference - C vs. CK ? Thanks! Bob

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VaTom

04-06-2007 17:38:30

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Re: info about wet brakes? in reply to Bob Farrell, 04-06-2007 07:22:07

Bob, seems the hoe in question here is a C. CK was the original version of 580 (Construction King). Case added a hoe to an industrial tractor. Didn't look much like a newer 580, whatever letter. We've also got a 580D, but I haven't been into the brakes. Very different tractor from a 580CK.

Far as I know, Cases hoes aren't known for great brakes.

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