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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

ROPS - Why so Important

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JoelD

05-27-2007 13:42:05




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I think a picture is worth a 1000 words. Leasons learned, First, don't trust an accountant home alone with a dozer, Second, pushing trees down works a whole lot better than pulling and Third, ROPS save lives. The scary thing is, I really do know better, and I've got a 4 year old at home. You can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble super fast. Guess what I'm buying first thing this week, ROPS for the Kubota. OK, now, like shooting fish in a barrel you guys can let me have it with guns blazing. PS> I did get the tree out.
Joel

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Doug Carmean

05-30-2007 19:58:09




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
A local excavator here with many years experience was clearing a farmers fence row with a non-rop dozer. A fairly small tree limb snapped back and hit him on the temple. A little scratch, no big deal. He kept working the rest of the day. He died of a brain hemmorage a week later. Southern Ohio



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j.w. watkins

05-30-2007 04:57:05




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
Joe phone or e-mail me I have the phone number of the NATIONA rops manager for KUBOTA. He is a good frien of mine and he can help you get the rops for the b tractor a a reduced cost. Kubota has a program nationwide to do this for tractors sold without one. Just E mail me and I will get you in touch.



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AJK

05-28-2007 07:14:22




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
Looks more like you had a storm there than the trees being pulled over as nobody no matter how silly would pull trees down over another tractor or would be using a chain so short that the trees would come down on top of themselves,not even a townie,you just don"t have a dozer and backhoe and not be machine wise,if you are an exception to the rule make sure you buy a lottery ticket every week,you"ll win.
AJ

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Billy NY

05-28-2007 06:58:32




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
It is highly commendable that you posted that photo, and am glad you did not get injured.

Aside from lecturing, pontificating and or making a speech on the dangers, for the purpose of speculating what could have happened, it's important for inexperienced people to see the potential dangers, that photo says quite a bit and makes it clear what can happen.

The protective structure placed on tractors, (R.O.P.S.) is designed provide an operator safely strapped into the seat, protection from getting crushed in the event of a roll over.

Every member, connection and location of connection to the particular tractor has been designed, checked, and analyzed by an engineer, to certify that it will not fail, and I'm sure to a certain extent, to not crush. The protective structure is specifically built for a particular tractor, that tractor has to be able to recieve the structure at connection points that will transfer the applied forces/loads from the R.O.P.S. to the tractor and still maintain the margin of safety by not failing.

Very often people mistake ones built by owners, for weather protection and or brush protection as something that will protect them in a roll over or impact. As said above, it needs to be correctly designed, members and connections sized and located properly for a particular tractor to work, not haphazardly built with little consideration for the strength needed to provide the protection needed. I'm sure some have been duplicated from ones that are legit from the factory, but it needs to be stout and properly connected to a tractor that can receive it at connection points built into the tractor for that purpose, as calculated/designed by a qualified engineer. Ever see ones mounted to the fenders, wondering how it will hold the weight of the tractor ? Usually on older tractors, which preceded the requirements of these necessary safety structures being required.

The old timers still knew the dangers of open station when that was all there was, and would have to have used their experience and or knowledge to get by, otherwise this country would have never been built, if you have a less than strong enough structure on a tractor, operating in the woods, clearing land, working on slopes, better know what you are doing and where to draw the line, certainly aint no joke, and will be unforgiving if something goes wrong.

The diameters of those trees are enough to be deadly, I distinctly remember a news paper photo of a guy, on a D7 Cat in the 50's, open station, pinned against the levers, dead, after a similar diameter tree fell on him while operating the machine, it was posted on another forum, with the caption blocked out. I have the same tractor, a R.O.P.S. would probably have saved him, dampening the impact, but the photo even though 50 years old, really embedded itself in my mind, stay out of the woods with an open station. That and slopes. I took mine down a slope that was an old road, but overgrown, had already cut down anything I thought dangerous, except one was caught in the vines off to the side, don't you know that one hit me directly on the side of the head, 6" dia. too, could have knocked me right off the tractor, hit hard and it hurt.

One thing I am not sure of is besides holding the weight of a tractor, how much direct impact a particular R.O.P.S. would take, say if a large diameter tree were to fall on one, or even a large limb coming down from far above, bigger tractors might have R.O.P.S. that would take it, but a small grading tractor like that JD may not take it, hard for one to say without facts.


I'll bet you have learned quite a bit, but use care and always carefully think out your moves, along with all potential consequences, they are usually final. You know even an idling machine or working in close proximity to a tree that has a widow maker limb on it, can cause it to fall, from vibration alone.

On the government accident report/investigation web site, I have read many instances of R.O.P.S. failing and operators killed, especially non factory, home built ones, besides a myriad of occurences I never even thought possible. I spent a significant period of time as an operator for large sitework contractors early in my career, did lots of clearing and other related tasks, became a good operator on everything I was assigned to run, really liked those years in the seat, but what I learned is just the tip of the iceberg, some of the things that have killed people are baffling, one I read on that site was where an operator cut a trench with a smaller dozer, adjacent to a pond for a farmer, maybe a dam job or something, wife of operator came by to check on him, no husband or machine. Sidewall of trench collapsed, buried the machine in muck, it was right in front of her, she did not know it, sidewall was so close, operator could not open the cab door to get out, trapped, no visible sign of the dozer, at some point it became evident what happened to him. He probably never considered what could have happened while cutting that trench out, and it got him even though was likely an experienced operator.

The front bracket on that R.O.P.S. on your JD looks deformed as if it's deflected, bent from forces applied, unless it's supposed to be like that just the photo, that is an important connection.

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135 Fan

05-28-2007 22:38:52




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to Billy NY, 05-28-2007 06:58:32  
A proper ROPS has to be certified. That's why they are so expensive. In order to be certified they have to be tested on the actual machine they were made for and the machine rolled. Most ROPS are good for 1 1/2 times the weight of the machine. There are also FOPS. Fall over protection structure which are lighter duty than a full ROPS. Dave



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TimV

05-29-2007 13:49:37




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to 135 Fan, 05-28-2007 22:38:52  
FOPS stands for Falling Object Protective Structure, and are not necessarily lighter than a ROPS. They are designed, tested and certified to protect against exactly the type of accident the pictures show. Most woods equipment is fitted with a combination ROPS/FOPS as both roll-overs and falling objects are common hazards of this type of work.



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135 Fan

05-29-2007 20:28:11




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to TimV, 05-29-2007 13:49:37  
I have seen combination ROPS/FOPS. Most times the machine will weigh more than something falling on it. Thanks for the clarification. Dave



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Andy in ct.

05-28-2007 02:44:33




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
Its dangerous pushing trees also. Dead limbs can snap off up top and come down right on top of you.



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JoelD

05-27-2007 16:19:21




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
No real good excuse, in my mind, I"d pull the bottom out from under it, logical, right? Who sais those physics classes in High School were useless? Anyway, this is the second close call I"ve had, first time was taking my backhoe off of the Kubota, I reached under the hoe to pull out the last bolt, I had blocked the back of the hoe but not the front frame, it dropped straight onto my wrist, if I had not blocked the back of the hoe I would"ve severed my hand, only ended up in a brace for a couple of weeks. The killer part is, I hand built the frame mount so I knew exactly how it worked. I think people get themselves into trouble two ways, first ignorance, just no experience, and second, when you get to comfortable around the machine. Either way its an accident waiting to happen. I have been very fortunate to learn my leasons without serious personal injury. It is easy to see how people get killed.

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JoelD

05-27-2007 16:19:16




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
No real good excuse, in my mind, I"d pull the bottom out from under it, logical, right? Who sais those physics classes in High School were useless? Anyway, this is the second close call I"ve had, first time was taking my backhoe off of the Kubota, I reached under the hoe to pull out the last bolt, I had blocked the back of the hoe but not the front frame, it dropped straight onto my wrist, if I had not blocked the back of the hoe I would"ve severed my hand, only ended up in a brace for a couple of weeks. The killer part is, I hand built the frame mount so I knew exactly how it worked. I think people get themselves into trouble two ways, first ignorance, just no experience, and second, when you get to comfortable around the machine. Either way its an accident waiting to happen. I have been very fortunate to learn my leasons without serious personal injury. It is easy to see how people get killed.

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James Jackson

05-27-2007 15:57:17




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
Gooday bloke . Well now JoelD . Me thinks you should go out & buy a lottery ticket ( & I might just do that on your behalf ) Good wake-up call there & am ever so glad your young fella still has a dad . Lucky you ! Nice lush green area ! Where are you located ? Big of you to admit your rather large ooops & show us all the pictures to remind us to " take great care & keep living " . Thanks for that , y'all keep safe & well & have a great year . James in Auzzie-land . catch-y'all

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JoelD

05-27-2007 16:28:55




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to James Jackson, 05-27-2007 15:57:17  
Southern NH. Summer is just starting to kick in, been anxious to work on the yard, I've got 3.5 acres and most of it is tree'd, clearing out gradually over time, soil is very very rocky, granite, ledge, etc. Super tough on the machines if you don't take it easy.



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drott

05-27-2007 14:54:42




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
Yep, felling trees without a ROPS aint too cool. And pulling \\\'em down on top of you is REAL uncool!
third party imagethird party imagethird party image

And tracked hoes usually never have a seriously armored cab. Here\\\'s a pic of what happened to one digging out the roots of a big oak. The operator had over 20 years of experience, he dug around the rootball, and then averted his attention just for a moment to reposition the machine. Just at that moment a gust of wind blew up and then BAM: the tree fell right on the cab. The man inside was killed outright.
third party imagethird party image

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James Jackson

05-27-2007 15:48:57




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to drott, 05-27-2007 14:54:42  
Gooday fella's all . Sure do agree with the absolute necessity for a verrry strong ROPS . Am trying to find from Dave in Wales or anyone else just how to build one . How thick ? What section frame ? etc etc . One's out here are not strong at all . Where & how to attach one to my MF 165 . Our property here in the tropical Rainforest of Far North Queensland in Australia we have a rather hilly c/w gullies & streams/rivers & damp slippery ground ( thank goodness we've got water ) block of land and I'm to busy trying to get all the work done to be caught lying down on the job - under a rolled-over tractor . It's a darn shame that I can't get your pictures to come up ! Any ideas there ? Very big-of-him ( accountant chap ) to admit his ooops & post pictures so we can all learn while staying alive . First accntnt I've ever known to admit an ooops in public . Thanks all . james in Auzzie-land & keep 'em comming " learn & live , great

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Case450

05-27-2007 14:16:43




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to JoelD, 05-27-2007 13:42:05  
your a lucky feller....can i ask you why you would decide to pull the tree instead of pulling it? lol...looks like good times



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john_bud

05-27-2007 21:18:51




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 Re: ROPS - Why so Important in reply to Case450, 05-27-2007 14:16:43  
Joe,

Next time you decide to do some work, call me up. I want to make sure I'm not in the fall zone, splat zone or flying severed body part zone.

Seriously, operating heavy equipment isn't a joke. Operating Engineers go thru lots of training and they die or get seriously injured frequently. You also won't find one pulling over a 40' tree with a 20' chain...



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