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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble

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kenneth osborn

06-21-2007 07:50:09




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just rebuilt shuttle shift but it slips after it warms up put new kit in with new forward clutch pistion and forward clutch cylinder and new vaule assembly the old vaule assembly was a little scratched up on out side would the case be bad and is there a kit for that anyone have any other ideas as why it would be slipping after it get warm thanks ken




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J Ross

06-24-2007 04:45:07




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-21-2007 07:50:09  
i had that type shuttle in a forklift it lost forward drive suddnly on the advice of someone i pulled it out and started to tear it down but when i got the pump off i seen that the concave disc was broke i was unsure about what i was doing so i just replaced the disc,put it back in and it worked perfect. my two cents worth.
J



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Jiles

06-23-2007 12:26:37




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-21-2007 07:50:09  
I have never rebuilt this type shuttle, but I agree with AJK on his opinion that weak pressure is the problem. However I don't think the return spring is the problem because it does just that, it returns the forward piston in neutral and reverse. If the spring breaks you would have a binding condition and premature wear in the forward clutch pack. On a few transmissions I have worked on I have broken sealing rings or tore a rubber seal upon rebuilding. What I learned over many years as an automatic transmission mechanic was that the average mechanic can rebuild virtually any automatic. The greatest challenge comes after a rebuild and you still have problems. Knowing what to do! In this case, did you make the problem worse or help it a little, or is it the same? Many times problems come from a previous rebuild where someone left parts out or assembled them wrong. I dought that you have weak pressure or the unit would slip in reverse. You either have too much clearence in the clutch pack, broken sealing rings or torn rubber seals in the clutch drum assembly. Understand that I USED-TO-BE a professional. These are only my opinions.

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kenneth osborn

06-23-2007 22:03:26




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to Jiles, 06-23-2007 12:26:37  
ok will it helped the problem it is not as bad as it was i did go by the same pic as AJK sent when i reassembled it to make sure that all was put back thanks for your help



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Jiles

06-24-2007 08:30:27




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-23-2007 22:03:26  
kenneth-- Regardless of how careful you are, you can break a sealing ring or tear a rubber seal. If you are reasonably sure that this has not happened, go for the pressure system. The pump pressure has to be directed to the forward clutch pack. This pressure is supplied to the shaft that goes through the forward clutch assembly. The sealing rings on the shaft directs pressure below the piston. Upon application, pressure pushes the piston out, thus locking the clutch pack. When in neutral or reverse, pressure is released and is directed to reverse assembly or is circulated in neutral. Therefore, I would check the manual valve that directs this pressure. I dought that it has rubber "o" rings so make sure the adjustment is correct. This has to be accomplished by a "detent"(valve positive stop point) This can sometimes be done in this way--Crank the machine, put the shuttle in forward and move the leaver further or bring the leaver down very slightly. If possible, have someone or yourself work the linkage on the shuttle by hand after disconnectiong it, from below the machine. This should be done with a compitent helper with SAFETY being the number one concern! I would have the rear wheels off the ground and the machine against a large object. BE CAREFUL!!!

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kenneth osborn

06-24-2007 08:57:57




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to Jiles, 06-24-2007 08:30:27  
the manual valve was replace with a new one when i rebuilt it and it does go all the way to the stop when in forward if just place in forward it slips a little but if you push on shifter it works better could the vaule need to go even more forward maybe grind stop down



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Jiles

06-24-2007 14:11:33




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-24-2007 08:57:57  
Why was the valve replaced? Did you compare the old with the new? Why not try the old valve. You could have an obstruction in the valve channel. I would only grind what could be easily reversed or repaired. This sounds like worn linkage not letting the valve travel far enough. Most machines are designed to accept normal wear. It sounds like wrong or mismatched parts. Many transmission failures after rebuild is attributed to drash not being cleaned. Any time I rebuild an engine or transmission, I clean EVERY part as clean as possible and blow out all passageways. I have even seen clitch lineing material jammed behind a valve, limiting it travel.

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kenneth osborn

06-24-2007 16:44:47




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to Jiles, 06-24-2007 14:11:33  
i thought the vaule might be bad and it is the same as the old one THANKS FOR YOUR IMPUT KEN



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AJK

06-23-2007 09:47:42




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-21-2007 07:50:09  
Right Ken we now know that the problem is that the forward clutch pack is not being squeezed tight enough for it to drive strong,it could be a pressure leak,worn discs or the belelville spring is weak,there is very little you can do with that shuttle from the outside,the normal thing I go for with the forward slipping is the belelville spring,it usually cracks and loses its tension,go to the link below for a parts drawing of the BW shuttle,the belelville spring is a concave type spring and it is item #49 on the second page,if you have the manual it will probably give a spec for the spring,ie the minimum hight etc,I always replaced them as insurance even when I could see nothing wrong with them,check that for any reason the the clutch disconnect is not coming in when forward is selected,if yours is electric disconnect it just in case there might be a problem with it.
AJ

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kenneth osborn

06-23-2007 21:55:15




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to AJK, 06-23-2007 09:47:42  
concave spring was new when i rebuilt it and the electical part is disconnected
and other ideas thanks ken



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AJK

06-27-2007 01:56:01




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-23-2007 21:55:15  
That concave spring acts like a diaphragm pressure plate,it is the piston pressure on the centre of it that applies the pressure to the clutch pack to squeeze it together,since you replaced it,the valve and the discs it can be eliminated,that leaves the pressure,when forward is selected fluid is pushed from the valve through a port in the casing to the forward clutch shaft through a bearing (bush type) it travels through the shaft to the forward clutch cylinder,where the fluid exits the shaft there are sealing rings on the shaft like piston rings,they would have come in the repair kit,if you have replaced them it brings me back to the pressure test,reason been that the reverse clutch is much larger in diameter and may not need as much pressure to engage so if the pump pressure is low there may be enough for the reverse clutch but not enough for the forward,it would be a pity now to leave it slipping as it will ruin the new clutch pack,a 0 to 300 psi gauge is needed,the manual covers it should you not have one I can email you the pages.
AJ

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kenneth osborn

06-27-2007 10:29:01




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to AJK, 06-27-2007 01:56:01  
thanks AJ I don't have the manual so if you could email that page that would be great



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AJK

06-27-2007 13:54:46




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-27-2007 10:29:01  
Sent you an email,let me know if you did not get it
AJ



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kenneth osborn

06-27-2007 19:56:40




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to AJK, 06-27-2007 13:54:46  
AJ i did not get your email try to send it to me at ozzy76853@yahoo.com thanks



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AJK

06-28-2007 03:31:44




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-27-2007 19:56:40  
Sent you another to the address above,come back if it did not get through.
AJ



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Jiles

06-22-2007 19:24:10




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-21-2007 07:50:09  
What was the problem with the shuttle before you rebuilt it? I have rebuilt hundreds of automatic transmissions and this is very similar.



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kenneth osborn

06-23-2007 07:54:56




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to Jiles, 06-22-2007 19:24:10  
it slipped very bad in forward



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AJK

06-21-2007 15:51:21




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to kenneth osborn, 06-21-2007 07:50:09  
Is it slipping in both directions,if you have full power in one direction it would mean that the torque is ok,the charge pump is ok and it would pin the problem just to the forward clutch,if it is slipping in both directions the pump would be suspect no1 esp as it is slipping when warmed up,a pressure test would be the best way to go.
AJ



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kenneth osborn

06-23-2007 07:57:46




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 Re: case 580c shuttle shift transmission trouble in reply to AJK, 06-21-2007 15:51:21  
just slipping in forward i think its loseing pressure some where just not sure where thanks



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